French v UK - a user's perspective

[SaligoBay]

Went to England for the weekend, and son met up with a friend.  Among other important issues (to 11-year-old minds, that is), they compared school experiences, and from their point of view, British school came out top.   Here's why....

Bad things about British school - compulsory uniform, religious education.

Good things about British school - start later, finish earlier, have longer morning and afternoon breaks, allowed a packed lunch, choice of menu in canteen, get to go swimming.

Son's reaction was "Can we go back to England?"    And I did feel sorry for him on Monday, faced with a complete 8.30am to 5pm day, it's a long, long day for them, especially with a load of homework for the evening!

But still, think of the head full of Extremely Useful French Grammar he'll have at the end of it all.

[Viv]

My 10 year old daughter still emails one or two pals in the UK who have great pity on her for having to work some saturday mornings.

We thought that the Wednesdays off, Saturday morning business would take some getting used to , but personally  I think having wednesday to recharge her batteries is a great idea because of the length of the school day.

Also, I find that the narrower band of subjects that my daughter studies at the moment is better suited for her.

[Domp80]

I think it is very difficult for the children, especially in our case whereby English school wasn't that long ago (they left end May).

The long days are definitely the hardest thing especially, as you say, with then having to do the homework in the evening. My nearly 6 year old seems to have loads of homework (he is in CP) and it HAS to be done that same evening. The one day he only did half of it because he wasn't feeling well, the teacher gave him a dressing down at school the next day !

For my daughter (CM1) she has a lot of rote learning to do in the evenings which is especially difficult as she is still in the early stages of mastering the language.

As a result they both long for their English school and their old schoolfriends but I am hoping this will be cured with time !

[Battypuss]

My daughters opinions, aged 11 and 12, after starting school in France at age 2 and recently moving to London.

Bad things about French schools

Kids are really nasty if you live in an HLM (council) house and their parents won't let them come and play/visit

Kids are really nasty if you don't have a car

Kids are really nasty if you don't have 2001 assorted relations

Kids are horrid to black and Arab children, also ESN children (these two were left alone, apart from a couple of small skirmishes)

Kids are really nasty if you don't have the latest trainers etc.

There is too much homework

The teachers are biased towards rich kids

 

Good things about French schools

Lunch

The discipline

 

Bad things about English schools

No discipline

Tatty buildings

Lunch

Teachers don't care

Lessons are too easy and boring

 

Good things about English schools

Nobody cares if you live in a council flat

School uniform looks smart except stupid kids wearing two inch ties

Start half an hour later

Finish an hour and a half earlier

Almost never any homework

Not forced to do sport 5 times a week in all weathers and in all forms

Kids don't care what colour you are

 

Strange, the things children like/dislike, eh? I figured they'd hate school uniform! And both panic because they think they must have missed out half the homework because it only took ten minutes, not three hours...

[Deby]

What are ESN children?

I will ask my 6 year old what she thinks about the two school systems, but asking a six year old direct questions tends to only achieve a rolling of the eyeballs answer, but nonetheless I will give it a try.

Deby

[Russethouse]

ESN = educationally sub normal

I'm not sure if it's an expression still used commonly in schools in this PC age.

[Dick Smith]

It's Learning Disability now, Gay. A catch-all for anyone at any age who has a cognitive impediment.

I do object to the idea that British teachers don't care - they do, that's why so many of them bail out of the profession.

[chicfille]

My primary age children came up with this:

Good in England: uniform, packed lunches, PE (especially apparatus in the hall and rounders), writing, shorter days, singing, more playtimes, sports day and the Christmas show

Bad in England: errr...nothing they could think of

Good in France: geometry (yes really), geography (indeed), no Wednesday school

Bad in France: rote-learning poetry, vegetables boiled to death, only one playtime, teachers that shout

They agree that they like school here now as much as they did in England, but not for the same reasons.

[Iceni]

One of the problems about playing this UK vs France game with children is that they may get the impression that their answers matter and/or will change the country in which they are educated. 

One of the benefits is that it gives some on this forum the opportunity of a little teacher bashing.

John

not

[SaligoBay]

One of the problems about playing this UK vs France game with children is that they may get the impression that their answers matter and/or will change the country in which they are educated.

But I didn't ask them, it came up naturally between them and got reported to me later!  There was no competition involved, it was an open and frank discussion between two Men-to-be.   In my experience this is as good as it gets. 

Those of you who like the Wednesdays off, this only lasts till they go to collège.

Battypuss, interesting about the HLMs.  It's so true that parents who have big houses and drive 4x4s don't encourage out-of-school friendships with those lower down the scale.  I guess it should be no surprise really!    

[Tourangelle]

I'm surprised about the swimming, the swimming pool near here is reserved for local schools during the week.

[Mpprh]

[quote]One of the problems about playing this UK vs France game with children is that they may get the impression that their answers matter and/or will change the country in which they are educated. But I ...[/quote]

Did I see SB in the Toyota dealership negotiating prices on an Amazon ?

Peter

 

[SaligoBay]

Ah yes, well, negotiations were going extremely well until the vending machine exploded, after some bloke in a brown raincoat tried to feed it with a pocketful of crushed Perrier cans.

It's all becoming clear.....

 

[Battypuss]

[quote]It's Learning Disability now, Gay. A catch-all for anyone at any age who has a cognitive impediment.I do object to the idea that British teachers don't care - they do, that's why so many of them bail ...[/quote]

Dick, I didn't mean that all teachers in England didn't care! Just that elder daughter has noticed the vast difference between those who DO (about 4 out of the 9 that teach her currently), those who DON'T (3 out of 9) and those who keep changing their mind!

[Dick Smith]

I do know what you mean, BP. In some ways nowadays in schools in the UK the system tends to drive out the ones with a vocation because circumstances (in inner-city schools for example) are so bad that they can't do what they came into the job to do, or they drop their expectations in line with what is achievable.

In the last few years, however, I have been extremely impressed with how seriously some take their profession, and how much they try to improve what is given to kids. But then, I think it was the same when I was at school.

[Elsie2]

This, I'm afraid, was my children's point of view:

Better in UK: everything

Worse in France: everything

Food (yes, it really was)

Toilets

Getting told to 'degage' by other kids (sadly, just about the first word they learnt)

Getting hit by other kids

Kids getting hit by teachers

Cantine (a kind of boot camp; kids got hit by supervisors)

Lessons (boring rote-learning and conjugaison)

Being told to bring an English book and read it all day

No sport

No play space (tiny 'cour'); unsupervised recree (bullies rule)

Kid with severe behavioural difficulties and no support assistant (all the kids got hit by him)

Perhaps we weren't lucky. The teachers were friendly and well-meaning, but I don't think they had much understanding of the linguistic and emotional needs of foreign children. We're now back in the UK. I can't help but contrast the reception foreign children get at our local primary school with what happened to my children in France.

 

 

[Wendy]

Id like to add a few more 'bad things about french school' points courtesy of my son...

teachers who shout...ALOT

no toilet paper in the toilets

smelly toilets

the kids using the school wall as a urinal

having to attend the 'local' college 15 kms away rather than the 'non-local' college 2 km's away.

being asked why you wear the same trousers 3 times a week

being asked 'why your hair looks like that'

kids who use the smelly toilets with no toilet paper who don't wash their hands and sit next to you

More seriously, why does the school not provide paper in the toilets and won't consider it? Surely this is health issue as a lot of the boys are using the playground as a 'toilet' already. Is this the case in other parts of france?. With a school day of 8.30-5.00 my son finds it very difficult as he won't set foot in the toilets as they are quite filthy (Ive seen them). Yes Ive complained, they aren't bothered.

 

[SaligoBay]

More seriously, why does the school not provide paper in the toilets and won't consider it?

Wen, there was a thread about this a while ago.  You are not alone!

http://forums.livingfrance.com/shwmessage.aspx?ForumID=277&MessageID=225203

[Teamedup]

The smell is something that likely you cannot do anything about. However, I do believe that schools are obliged to provide toilet paper and soap, things for basic hygiene.

 

[GRT17]

However, I do believe that schools are obliged to provide toilet paper and soap, things for basic hygiene.

This situation of dirty toilets, lack of paper and soap etc. sounds horrendous and not what we would would expect in this century. Do they have an equivalent "environmental / public health / sanitary inspection department" within the French system? if so I would be inclined to mention the matter to them if the school is prepared to do nothing about it. After all if this occurred in a restaurant, if reported it would be in danger of being closed down.

 

Gill

[Mistral]

The toilets are generally cleaned once a day, but with 600+ pupils using just one set of toilets and because they are outside, they get dirty quickly.

As far as I know, most of them have "soap on a stick" It doesn't lather up easily but nor can you wrench it off the wall or spray it everywhere.

If you ask about the lack of toilet paper at a conseil de classe, you will be told that if it is left in the toilets, it gets chucked down the loos and blocks them up. So it is available at the loge if you ask for it.

This means the child has to go to the loge, ask for paper (possibly mention how many sheets he will need-I'm not joking) then trail across the main hall paper in hand to the toilets hoping that the bell hasn't rung because they are locked outside of breaktime.