Teamedup Posted December 13, 2005 Share Posted December 13, 2005 LOL the most sensible swiss do not use 'soixante-dix', 'quatre-vingt' or ' quatre-vingt-dix' etc etc and neither do the belgians and I would hope that those from Luxembourg would also be so wise. I can't see the Monacans being so sensible about this though and as it is a while since I have been and cannot remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jc Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Twice in France I have been served CHIPS(big English style) not frites;they had a different name which I cannot remember nor can I remember where they were served.Can anyone help?A French or English teacher,possibly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Riff-Raff Element Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 [quote user="Teamedup"]LOL the most sensible swiss do not use'soixante-dix', 'quatre-vingt' or ' quatre-vingt-dix' etc etc andneither do the belgians and I would hope that those from Luxembourgwould also be so wise. I can't see the Monacans being so sensibleabout this though and as it is a while since I have been and cannotremember.[/quote]Are the Swiss particularly "sensible" because they use a differentcounting system? I thought they did it mostly to make it clear thatthey were NOT French. The French spoken in Luxembourg, to the best ofmy recollection, is "high" French as it is mostly used as anadministrative language. Luxembourgish may have some French in itsomewhere though; it is rather difficult to tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangur Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Apparently the bizarre French counting systems is a throwback from the Celts who had a different system of counting to Roman decimalisation. So soixante-dix can be seen as an homage to ancient history perhaps....think of Asterisk as you add your 15 onto the base [:D] The Swiss use lots of different words (even ordering a coffee or a beer seems to require a different vocabulary) and as Jond said, I reckon a lot of it is just a way of making sure no-one thinks they're French. Of course different countries will have different vocabs depending on the different influences on the language around them. My English is influenced in parts by Gaelic. There are words the Irish use when speaking English that British people don't understand (a press is a cupboard, a hotpress is an airing cupboard...) and we pronounce the same words a little differently, based on the Gaelic alphabet. Ask an Irish person to say E.R. You'll think we're talking about Winnie the Pooh.It's not wrong, it's our version of English. Languages need to evolve and adapt to local usage or they die. RP and the Queen's English is a particulary British thing - English is no longer a language solely for the British and given the numbers of non-Brits writing, speaking and adapting the language, the British can no longer expect to control its usuage. British-English is just another dialect now[;)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jc Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Just remember that "English" has a vocabulary about 5 times that of French and is the second most common language in the world-French is the fourth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamedup Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 I have heard so many tales of how the french ended up with their particular counting system. Another was the aristos using these terms and the rabble mimicking them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Riff-Raff Element Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 [quote user="Jc"]Just remember that "English" has a vocabulary about 5 times that of French and is the second most common language inthe world-French is the fourth.[/quote]Does English not contain the terms "three score and ten" and even "four score?" A common root, perhaps.JC - your point is a valid one, though I'd question whether the extent of the vocabulary was really any longer relevent. I readsomewhere this last summer (perhaps even on this august forum)that between 1970 and 2000 the average vocabulary of the British hadfallen from about 10,000 words to something around 7,500, and thatalmost 50% of the population get by on less than 5000 words. So only atiny fraction of the available (two-or-so million?) recognised Englishwords get much of an outing. Charabanc, for example. (Boom, Boom!)It would be easy to blame this on a decline in standards of eductaion(though I myself would not make such an assertion - it has been madequite clear to me by educational professionals that my having hadan education in no way qualifies me to hold an opinion on the subject),though I rather suspect that this, too, is simply an evolution. Or adevolution. I'm not quite sure which. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 It's not wrong, it's our version of English. Languages need to evolve and adapt to local usage or they die. RP and the Queen's English is a particulary British thing - English is no longer a language solely for the British and given the numbers of non-Brits writing, speaking and adapting the language, the British can no longer expect to control its usuage. British-English is just another dialect nowFrench is not allowed to 'evolve and adapt' there is a an 'acadamie' to protect it.British - English (which does evolve and adapt) is not just another dialect, surely its the 'root' language, all be it a hybrid with many different influences itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangur Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 There was meant to be a wink after my dialect comment btw... Does the Acadamie rule on language matters in Quebec or West African francophone countries? Or have their languages evolved in the same way that American English has? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaligoBay Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 [quote user="Pangur"]Does the Acadamie rule on language matters in Quebec or West African francophone countries? Or have their languages evolved in the same way that American English has?[/quote]Even in France the language changes, in spite of the Académie's Canute-like efforts to keep it stagnant. I have the impression that they are regarded with a tiny bit of scepticism, as people inflated with an exaggerated sense of their own intellectual importance.Where would they stop anyway? Pizza, kebab, couscous, black, stop, break? Got to keep up with the times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourangelle Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 [quote user="Pangur"]There was meant to be a wink after my dialect comment btw... Does the Acadamie rule on language matters in Quebec or West Africanfrancophone countries? Or have their languages evolved in thesame way that American English has? [/quote]Try listening to Canadian radio on the net, or watching a FrenchCanadian film (I'd recommend La Grande Séduction) it sounds verydifferent and the vocabularly is not the same. The first time Iheard it I found it a very odd experience. Anyway, between what the académie thinks and what happens, there is agulf. It would be wrong to say that English evolves and French isa static language in France, it has altered a great deal over time,especially in terms of its grammar.Je cause la France, moi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 "RP and the Queen's English is a particulary British thing - "..... and, of course, RP and the Queen's English are not necessarily the same thing.Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Riff-Raff Element Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 I understood that the point that Cnut / Cnute / Canute was making wasthat he couldn't turn back the sea even if his fawning courtiers saidthat he could. He sat on the beach and got wet to prove that he wasinferior to God. Frankly a silly thing for a king to do in my view (ithardly inspires awe, does it?), and surely not the ethos of theAcadémie Français who seem very much to know their place in the grandscheme of things and it isn't sitting in a deckchair with soggytootsies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted December 14, 2005 Share Posted December 14, 2005 Not silly at all. He put aside his crown for good, saying that only the king that sat in heaven was worthy of a crown, and that he (Cnut) was just a man. A good message (and very Nordic, of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Riff-Raff Element Posted December 15, 2005 Share Posted December 15, 2005 [quote user="Dicksmith"]Not silly at all. He put aside his crown forgood, saying that only the king that sat in heaven was worthy of acrown, and that he (Cnut) was just a man. A good message (and veryNordic, of course).[/quote]OK - as a self-effacing act of piety, I don't think one could hold acandle to dear old Cnut / Canut / Canute. I was thinking more of hisactions in terms of career moves for kings in general. Public displaysof humility followed but actual action are not the hallmarks ofsuccessful monachy as a rule. Imagine if this sort of thing went on inpolitics today! We'd have....erm...oh......better government, Worldpeace, an end to poverty, none of which would do at all.[D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battypuss1 Posted December 16, 2005 Share Posted December 16, 2005 Reminds me of when my daughter was chucked out of English too; she corrected the teacher by telling her that it wasn't "Mr X goes out of prison". That argument lasted months.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viv Posted December 22, 2005 Share Posted December 22, 2005 Not quite the same but the current advert for Kris-Proll drives me mad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battypuss1 Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 [quote user="Jc"]Twice in France I have been served CHIPS(big English style) not frites;they had a different name which I cannot remember nor can I remember where they were served.Can anyone help?A French or English teacher,possibly.[/quote] They are called 'Pont Neuf', though why a bridge in Paris would have a bearing on the shape/size of chips is beyound me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted December 29, 2005 Share Posted December 29, 2005 Like the way Eccles Cakes don't look like Peter Sellers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val_2 Posted January 8, 2006 Author Share Posted January 8, 2006 That d**m teacher has raised my blood pressure again this past week. He deducted two points off my son's contrôle for refusing to believe that there is such a product as Marmite. The kids had to write an essay on something they like but cannot easily obtain in France, so my son who loves Marmite and Vegemite wrote about that. Even the others had heard of it and backed him up. I felt like going up there and throwing the b****y jar at this wally of a teacher. He also corrected the class for writing the word jam instead of jelly in a passage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenup Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 I think that us Brits should just get used to Americanised English. The fact that the French are having to accept English in any form should indicate to us that we should accept changes as well. It is worth learning all the differences anyway.On the subject of languages. I have long been searching for a good dictionary for finding out the meaning of French words. I have always found that the bilingual dictionaries don't have all the French words that I have found written in French documents.I am thinking that maybe I should purchase a good French Dictionary and simply read through the French descriptions. My French is not that good but at least it may enable me to find the words.Can anyone suggest a really good French (France) Dictionary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russethouse Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 I think that us Brits should just get used to Americanised English. [:D] Aaaaaah ! Wash your mouth out with soap ! [:D]Firstly, what is the name of this lesson ? English, not American !I think this teacher needs to understand and accept that there are wide coloquial differences between the two that are both correct, perhaps he'd like to come to the UK, ( possibly Boots [;)]) and ask for a fanny pack [;)]Tongue firmly in cheek !PS Val, I think there are several sites that explain the differences between English and 'American' Why not print out some examples and send it in, in the spirit of 'helping' this teacher ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourangelle Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Val, does your son actually have to go to English lessons, or would hebe excluded if he didn't? If he really has to go, I thinkyou should go and see this teacher, with your son and point out thatthe curriculum in no way favours American English over British English,and see what he says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renaud Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 A couple of years ago a Spanish girl at my daughter's school got an F in her Spanish GCSE. (She had been in the UK since she was 11 and speaks Spanish at home). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourangelle Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 I've heard of cases like that too, Renaud, but often it is becausethere is a technique to the exam, and if you answer too well, then youmiss the point. It does seem daft. I suppose it is in orderto avoid that that Val's son is doing English[:(] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.