Anyone doing Latin?

[SaligoBay]

Prof-parent meeting ce soir at collège, and the only one I'm going to see is the Latin teacher, because it's by far the Boy's worst mark.   Boy says it's just soooooooo boring.   The culture/history book looks interesting enough, but he says they just go round the class reading it out loud - yawwwwnnnnn!

Other than that it's just the usual declensions, although oddly they haven't done amo amas amat yet, I thought that was an essential part of Latin!   They're not reading any texts or anything, yet there's LOADS of fun stuff out there - on a quick search this morning I found Harrius Potter in Latin, and the words of "Old Macdonald".

So, anyone else doing Latin out there?  Are your babes enthralled by its beauty, or enslaved by boredom?

I'll just sing while I'm waiting........ Gaius est agricola E-I-E-I-O...... [8]

 

[Suze01]

Next year....

[sid]

Forty years ago, sorry.[:)] I found it boring too at the time, but it's actually turned out to be very useful. Not that I've met many Romans, but the roots of several of our European languages are in the Classics. There's a very logical sentence construction too, suits certain types of mind.

It was my Latin primer that inspired my first visit to France; there was a picture of the Pont du Gard on page one, and I was determined to visit it.

I hope he sticks at it.

[Mistral]

My answer to pupils who ask about how I felt about doing 4 years (up to O level- which I failed) was that I hated it but I don't regret having done it. I don't remember doing fun texts like Harrius Potter (not available at the time) but I enjoyed all the Greek/Roman myths and legends.

From talking to pupils in 3eme, they don't seem to have got anywher near as far in the grammar programme as I had at their age, but from what I can make out, about half the teaching time is civilization based, not grammar. The idea is to make it more attractive (not sure it works) All the same I would have expected amo, amas, amat by now. I'll ask my 5emes what they're doing tomorrow.

I'm not sure child #1 will have the option to do it as he's in a double LV1 class and I don't think the maximum hours in 5eme will allow it (to say nothing of timetable organisation)

In all the schools I have worked in, I have only met one latin teacher who could control a class and was actually on the same planet as the rest of us.

[Anton Redman]

For what it is worth. Except for Esperanto and other artificial languages the verbs 'to be' and 'to have' are irregular in every language I have learnt.  Only once passed an evening in conversation in Latin as a ligua franca, Polish/Romanian Roman Catholic priest in Rwanda.struggled a bit with a few words for the ladies who approached us but we finally settled for 'She may be from Babylon'

[HLG]

Based on my experience, it depends what kind of school your child goes

to. In some schools, Latin is used as a process-to-an-end type of class

- supposedly the top 25% of all students (from all classes) are taking

it, but in some schools that's how they regroup the best for the

Latin-German track that will lead them straight to Le Bac S avec

Mention (unless the child is of a different mind.) So WHAT is taught in

latin isn't the issue but rather who is placed into the class. The

teacher often read classics at uni and will expect students to keep

going at lycee level, although virtually none will.

In other schools, the spirit of the law is respected and thus all kids

enroll in Latin. Class is expected to be half civilization, with

studies of myths, customs, etc., and half grammar/translation. the

teacher may not have read classics at uni but may have studied the

basic latin course required French literature -- sufficient for a

lower-level 3-year course in Latin  but light on grammatical

items. Kids tend to be fascinated with gladiators, amphitheaters, etc.

It's a good way to get them to love classics.... if it's well done.

As for the fun factor, well, it really depends on the teacher.

  Your son's teacher may well have been a lover of classics,

enthused by Cicero, and thus may have no clue how to teach 13-year olds

when "love fo Cicero" isn't a criterion for joining the class (ie., his

idea of fun may not be your son's!). OR, alternatively, the teacher may

not have been trained to teach Latin at all. Or.... your son may be

bored by lessons that don't correspond to what he expected?

On a broader topic:

I'd suggest you go see most teachers, especially the music/arts/sports

teacher (who see very few parents, = short line.... and may be able to

throw in a good word for your child during the Conseil.) Don't forget

the "professeur principal". I know it's a chore, sitting on those

uncomfortable chairs with teachers who tell you about your child, but

it's useful for you to know what's going on AND it may help your child

rack in "brownie points" (sorry). Unless your child's grades are

stellar and thus essentially doesn't need you, you ought to show much

interest in what he does. (The obvious reason being, like in the UK,

that he'll feel he has to do well - that isn't the issue here, as I'm

sure he knows your concern, etc. So I'll skip to reason #2.)

 But also that a "concerned, polite parent" is the ideal parent

type according to the French-Teacher-Mindset. You should come when

summoned, listen carefully, ask intelligent questions ("Comment puis-je

l'aider a progresser?", "Y a-t-il un domaine où il se montre plus doué

et que je pourrais encourager?" "Avez-vous des ouvrages a me

recommander?"), never badger or threaten the teacher, be tactful 

-- when the teacher's wrong and you're sticking up for your child, all

of this will come into play as to whether they'll listen to you or not.

[SaligoBay]

[quote user="HLG"]Unless your child's grades are stellar [/quote]

Well yes, they are, apart from Latin, and he's at least a year younger than most of his class.  Teachers usually just wonder why I'm there, because apparently he's interested, attentive, asks pertinent questions....... sometimes I wonder if we're talking about the same boy!  [:)]

Latin teacher was very pleasant in a sort of "the nicer I am the sooner you'll go" sort of way.  I asked him what he hoped to achieve with them by the end of the year, for example would they be reading simple texts?   No!

I think this is a shame, it's not as if you have to do genuine ancient texts by great Latin writers.  Or maybe French people think you do, I don't know.  Maybe the concept of a simple Latin reader just isn't recognised as a teaching method here?

He said the Boy is obviously a gifted child and his problem with Latin is simply that he's never had to actually work at anything so far, and it's just too much like effort for him.   [:$]

So I've taken matters into my own hands and we'll do the Latin together.  If I have to recite bellum bellum bellum belli bello bello 100 times a day, I will, I'll get the dog to learn it too - ha ha real live Dog Latin!

Sent the Boy in today with "canis meus id comedit" (my dog ate it) firmly drilled into his head, and he said it to the teacher, and got some BROWNIE POINTS!!!  Yeeeeeeeeeeharrrrr!!

We'll get there, with or without the teacher.  [:D]

 

 

[HLG]

GOOD FOR YOUR SON!!!

:-)

:-)

Sounds like your son may also be bored because it's too easy for him...?

The teacher may be a "Modern French" teacher forced to teach the

year8's?  I know that in foreign languages, pupils are  not

supposed to read "made up" texts but only "real" texts (textes

authentiques) so perhaps the kids don't get to read any stories until

they are able to read real literature excerpts?

What's the textbook like? Out of curiosity - is the teacher making up his own method or is he blindly following the textbook?

[Mistral]

[quote user="HLG"] I know that in foreign languages, pupils are  not supposed to read "made up" texts but only "real" texts (textes authentiques) [/quote]

This is only valid for lycée, in collège they are supposed to study adapted texts.

SB, I understand what the teacher is saying. Some very bright kids have never actually had to make an effort and when they find themselves faced with something that needs a bit more brain work, they don't know how to go about it. Their pride usually takes over and they sort it out in their own time.

I agree it's sad they don't have any texts, is it just sentence translation? (yuck) I can still remember some of the stories we had in our latin text books (not the latin of course but the stories)

Rather you than me taking on the latin teaching at home. I'm having enough trouble trying to give mine the basics in german (has your son got Deutch ist klasse too?)

 

[SaligoBay]

[quote user="Mistral"]

(has your son got Deutch ist klasse too?)[/quote]

Ja!  At least ich denke.  They certainly learned to chant "Deutsch ist super, Deutsch ist toll, Deutsch ist......" usw.

HLG, teacher seems to be doing it completely by the book.  Son is addicted to the Horrible Histories books, and says how good it would be if the teachers would even put interesting little factoids into their lessons rather than just plough through their work.  He's learned a lot of good stuff from those books. 

[Iceni]

wow, this certainly takes me back , it is nearly 45 years since "O" level Latin. IIRC it was a relatively easy subject, logical sentence construction etc and the war stuff was interesting. As to whether learning Latin has any practical use beyond another subject to try to pass ? Probably not but no different to most other subjects. There seemed/seems little attempt to prepare children for the real world but as long as teachers begat teachers and the government feels the need to keep interfering little will change.

John

not

[SC]

SB- encourage your son by telling him that if he perseveres he'll be able to have one of  the smuggest bumper stickers around:

Sona si latine loqueris

[:)]  Steve  

[Floodfamilyagain]

Hello,

My son has been studying Latin since September 2005. He is one of just six students out of fifty that have opted to study Latin in year five instead of having extra study periods. Having asked him about Latin he says that he mostly enjoys the lessons . His averages for Latin are matching his averages for English which I think is mainly down to the pupil numbers being so low for the subject. It has enabled the  teacher to spend more time with the group and to relax more with her teaching methods. As a result she has a much more varied means of teaching rather than just the board copying regime .That aspect of french schooling (regardless of the subject) my son has found to be really boring and he has missed the practical work that was included much more frquently in his English Catholic school.He has found the history/culture aspect of Latin interesting. They do have a book covering the subject ( probably the same one as your son) but the teacher brings in other ' fun' sheets for the group to complete.

It is a shame that some of his other teachers aren't in a position ( or maybe  just dont have the initiative) to use the same approach. I am sure my Sons averages in other subjects would be much improved.

[Dick Smith]

John - given your company name isn't admitting to liking Latin a bit risky? That big girl Boudicca might come round and sort you out!

By coincidence I found a website that gives you a weather forecast in Latin. A bit creaky, but original. My Latin died out before 'O' level, but the few bits I remember can be fun. When we are doing the Romans we always do the register and the date in Latin.

Aquila non captat muscas!

[SaligoBay]

[quote user="Floodfamilyagain"]

Having asked him about Latin he says that he mostly enjoys the lessons . His averages for Latin are matching his averages for English which I think is mainly down to the pupil numbers being so low for the subject. It has enabled the  teacher to spend more time with the group and to relax more with her teaching methods. As a result she has a much more varied means of teaching rather than just the board copying regime .That aspect of french schooling (regardless of the subject) my son has found to be really boring and he has missed the practical work that was included much more frquently in his English Catholic school.He has found the history/culture aspect of Latin interesting. They do have a book covering the subject ( probably the same one as your son) but the teacher brings in other ' fun' sheets for the group to complete.

It is a shame that some of his other teachers aren't in a position ( or maybe  just dont have the initiative) to use the same approach. [/quote]

No fun sheets in this class!  He is now starting to positively hate Latin.  Another contrôle today with yet more declensions and endings.   Still nothing imaginative or attractive going on at all.   Apparently if you do it in 5ème you have to carry it on into 4ème and 3ème, but I'll fight that, I'm not having him wasting his time like that for another year. 

Disappointing, because he started off so keen and enthusiastic, but what can you do?   I've talked to some others in the class, they're all hacked off with it, I think it's put them off for life!  I can only do so much at home with him, I can't make his actual classes interesting. 

Ah well.   

[Miki]

Swapped Latin for Spanish in 2nd year at School and the only Latin that has really stayed long in my memory is Spectemur Agendo, as it was stuck on my cap and blazer for all the years I was there !!

[SaligoBay]

Miki, if I tell my son this, do you think he'll take it as good advice or a horrible warning?  [:D]

[Miki]

He might well think it a bit 'orrible that he could well be wearing a

cap and blazer right through to 17+, whether or not, he continues with

his Latin !!

Wish I'd concentrated more on the Spanish, I'm still stuck with dos

cuba libre or uno cerveza and I want something more............well

Spanish, like something in the mode of a  liquor with Valencian

oranges and bulls blood......................there will be no stopping me once I've mastered Spanish like that [:D]

[Dick Smith]

So what school did you go to, Westinster Choir College, Clyde House (formerly Clyde School) or Geelong Grammar School?

[Miki]

Nothing as grand as those Dick, rather more a red brick Grammar school

This one from Geelong School  Christus nobis factus sapientia  is rather grand, is it not !! Sounds much grander than all us with Spectemur Agendo doesn't it !

Anyway seeing as I used to cycle to school, they were somewhat a little

to far for me to ride to, especially as I only had 3 Sturmey Archers to propel me

onwards to school !!

[Tresco]

Apparently if you do it in 5ème you have to carry it on into 4ème and 3ème,

Please forgive my ignorance, (just this once[:D]) but do French School years go backwards?

What do these terms equate to in old style English.

Also, those of you who are busy telling us your school Latin: I am moved to remind you of the 'irritating expressions' thread. Am I to leave this highly entertaining discussion of your schooldays to google these expressions?

I may start to suspect you have forgotten what they mean.[6]

[Teamedup]

1st year secondary is 6eme, 2nd year secondary is 5eme and on it goes up to 3eme in the colleges, so only four years of college.  Then  they go to lycee  for three years, the first year being, 'seconde', 2nd year is premiere and  the last year, terminale.

 

[Tresco]

Thanks TU. I'll have to preserve that post somewhere. [:)]