Gardian Posted January 26, 2008 Share Posted January 26, 2008 Bit of a complex one, this.Our French neighbours are in their late-50's, comfortable, but not wealthy. Really nice people. Five children, all in their 30's. The eldest has a son, now aged 18, who was brought up by our neighbours from virtually 0 - 12 yrs, but has since returned to live with his father and stepmother some 500kms away. Difficult situation at home: standoffs with his father, little support, grandparents frustrated (and who look on him as a son rather than a grandson).He's a lovely lad, bright and personable. He wants to read Law at Uni (from next Autumn), but Dad won't entertain the financing of it. Our neighbours want to support him, but have limited funds (though the rest of the family would undoubtedly chip in).My question is whether any State support would be dependent on his legal 'guardianship'? By all accounts, his father has the funds to support his further education, but quite simply won't. My suspicion is that as long as that remains the case, neither he nor his grandparents would get any State aid for his further education.If anybody has any pointers as to the rules or a possible avenue, it would be extremely helpful. The last thing I would want to do is tell them to "Do this, or do that", but a steer in a particular direction (if there was one) would be good for them.Any suggestions gratefully received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucinda Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 State Bourses are totally dependent on the parents or legal guarians income. If his father (presumably having remained his guardian) has the income to fund his uni education then he will be expected to. Sorry, it's not great news. There may be ways around it though but I think you would really have to know the "system".Lucinda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Riff-Raff Element Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 They'll need to do some calling around, but I have a feeling that the lad's father is obliged to give his son support for education. There has been a lot in the media about how unfair (on parents, that is) penal code article 402 (? - someone will know) is in this respect. He may have to go to tribunal, but if I have understood correctly, if his father has the money he is obliged to pay up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybananasbrother Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 I think the Riff-Raff are right on this one. Though actually getting the father to pay up may be another matter. Seems strange in this day and age that anyone would want to stop their kid getting an educatiuon.[6] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 Code civil Article 203Les époux contractent ensemble, par le seul fait du mariage, l'obligation de nourrir,entretenir et élever leurs enfants.-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Quelles obligations pour les parents ? Qu'ils soient légitimes, naturels ou adoptants, les parents ont toujours à l'égard de leurs enfants une obligation alimentaire et une obligation d'entretien(art. 203 du code civil). Cette règle générale s'applique tant quel'enfant n'a pas atteint son autonomie financière : elle n'est doncconditionnée par aucune limite d'âge. Si un jeune poursuit ses étudeset dispose par lui-même de ressources qui lui permettent de subvenir àses besoins (ce qui est rare), les parents n'ont aucune obligation.Dans tous les autres cas, il va de soi que l'obligation d'entretien etalimentaire doit s'apprécier selon les ressources des parents, le coûtdes études, les montants des aides dont dispose l'étudiant (bourses,aides sociales). Pas question cependant de poursuivre des étudesplus ou moins mythiques ou indéfinies, ou de s'inscrire chaque année defaçon purement formelle à une nouvelle Faculté... Les tribunauxapprécient la cohérence du projet d'études et de son déroulement dansle temps. Un étudiant peu sérieux peut se voir couper les vivres, et l'obtention d'un diplôme de fin d'études constitue la limite logique à l'obligation financière des parents.Entre dialogue et conflit : des situations explosivesEntre les enfants qui poursuivent leursétudes et trouvent que les parents ne les aident pas assez, et lesparents qui estiment que les jeunes doivent participer à leurs frais,le conflit peut être latent.Il a beaucoup été question depuis quelques annéesd'étudiants ayant saisi les juges aux affaires familiales pour obtenirune aide financière de leurs parents. En fait, ces cas restent encorepeu nombreux, mais ils sont bien réels et ont permis de mieux préciserla doctrine des tribunaux sur ces questions délicates. Quelques pointsà relever : Chaque situation est appréciée en détail, enfonction des ressources des parents, ainsi que de la capacité del'enfant à poursuivre ses études. Un enfant majeur peut exiger d'avoir un logementindépendant de ses parents, même si cette solution est plus coûteusepour les parents. Les parents ne peuvent exiger que leur enfanttravaille, même à temps partiel, pour financer ses études : travailsalarié et études sont en principe incompatibles. Toutefois, certainstribunaux ont tenu à responsabiliser des étudiants dont les parentsavaient peu de moyens, en obligeant les jeunes à travailler pendant unepartie de leurs vacances. Le recours à la médiation familiale doit enprincipe être généralisé dans ces affaires, afin d'éviter les abus etde préserver l'entente des familles. Quelle couverture sociale pour les étudiants ?* Les lycéens restent les ayants droit de leurs parents jusqu'à 20 ans. * Les étudiants relèvent d'un régime spécifique,gratuit jusqu'à 20 ans en tant qu'ayants droit, et payant au-delà entant qu'assurés autonomes. Les mutuelles étudiantes gèrent le plussouvent la partie sécurité sociale et la partie complémentaire. * Les enfants majeurs qui ne travaillent pas et nesont pas étudiants peuvent garder la qualité d'ayant droit de leursparents s'ils vivent avec eux et sont intégralement à leur charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemonimo Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 By the same token, I believe that if mum dad fall on hard times late in their lives, the children have an obligation to take care of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clair Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 [quote user="Gemonimo"]By the same token, I believe that if mum dad fall on hard times late in their lives, the children have an obligation to take care of them. [/quote] True, but that's another thread altogether!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemonimo Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 [quote user="Clair"][quote user="Gemonimo"]By the same token, I believe that if mum dad fall on hard times late in their lives, the children have an obligation to take care of them. [/quote] True, but that's another thread altogether!![/quote]Oops... got carried away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Riff-Raff Element Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 [quote]I think the Riff-Raff are right on this one. Though actually getting the father to pay up may be another matter. Seems strange in this day and age that anyone would want to stop their kid getting an educatiuon.[6][/quote]Not bad for me. OK - it was civil code not penal code and the article number was wrong, BUT I did get the general idea correct.What stuck in my mind was an Envoyé Spécial edition last year which featured a girl (faintly obnoixious in my opinion) who wanted to go to Canada to study and successfully sued her own mother for the fees. The money was taken from the woman's salary. The girl I think was about 23 years old. Anyway, it can be done - parents can be forced to cough up for adult offspring where grants are not available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardian Posted January 27, 2008 Author Share Posted January 27, 2008 Thanks very much everyone. Pretty much what I thought.I'm sure you appreciate that this is a very tricky matter for our neighbours and the rest of their family. Eldest son (now 40-ish), has a child by someone or other (long since departed) and the lad was brought up for the first 12+ yrs of his life by his grandparents. He's viewed as a sibling by their other 4 children.Dad is a professional man, away on business a lot, has another partner and has no interest in his son's further education. In fact, no interest in his son at all. Sad and somewhat incomprehensible?Anyway, they'll find a way. If there's a good outcome, I'll post back, but it'll take a while for them to sort.Funny things families, aren't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooby Posted January 27, 2008 Share Posted January 27, 2008 You (or your friends!) may find this interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardian Posted January 27, 2008 Author Share Posted January 27, 2008 Thanks!As you say, "Interesting", but it would never arise because I doubt that anyone would contemplate legal action against 'Dad'. They all think that he's ........ well, all the things you could imagine, but legal action? Non. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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