notsofrenchguy Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Greetings to allFor private reasons, my current goal is to buy a property only using Bitcoin.I am looking for a house in the Lot et Garonne department, with at least 4 bedrooms and 1000 square meters of land. My budget is 500 000 euros, which is about 60 BTC at the current rate.Please send me a private message if you know a real estate agent who sells in Bitcoin, or if you have a property for sale in Bitcoin Thank you very much.Looking forward to reading your answers ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTr@sh Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 First find a notaire that will accept bitcoin...Every property transaction, whether arranged privately or through a real estate agent, must go through a notaire, who is basically a tax collector for the government. AFAIK the French state does not recognise bitcoin as legal currency so it seems unlikely that notaires would be allowed to deal in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsofrenchguy Posted May 17, 2020 Author Share Posted May 17, 2020 Thank you for your response.Actually I just need the seller to accept Bitcoin as a means of payment. The notary will of course be paid in Euro, since the French state does not accept this currency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomoss Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 The full price of the property plus the taxes and the notaire's fee have to be paid into the notaire's client account prior to the sale.EDIT. Some time ago I believe it was possible to inform the notaire that the money for the house had been paid privately.Maybe you can find a notaire who will still do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsofrenchguy Posted May 17, 2020 Author Share Posted May 17, 2020 In that case I might have to find a Corsican notaire, since they are reputed to be less concerned about these kinds of normative details... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulT Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 As 'currencies' such as Bitcoin can fluctuate against, say, the euro whereas the euro does not fluctuate against the euro I would be very surprised if you find many will accept bitcoin for a property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsofrenchguy Posted May 17, 2020 Author Share Posted May 17, 2020 I am well aware that Bitcoin educated people are a minority, both in France and elsewhere in Europe. However in the case of real estate sales, crypto currencies can bring advantages. With Bitcoin, the transaction is done instantly and is considered absolutely irredeemable once it has been confirmed 6 times on the blockchain, which takes barely an hour. The seller can then immediately convert his bitcoins to Euro before any price fluctuation; I would no longer be concerned. Of course he can also keep his Bitcoins in the hope that they will increase in value in the future, which could be wise in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 [quote user="notsofrenchguy"]Thank you for your response.Actually I just need the seller to accept Bitcoin as a means of payment. The notary will of course be paid in Euro, since the French state does not accept this currency. [/quote] --------------------------------------------OK so the notary would be paid in euros, for the taxes and their fee?However, they then will have no proof of the actual sale price, which is what those fees are based on, how could they verify that. There are lots of rules associated with house sales in France, including the Mairie having the right to purchase if the price is 'right' for them, ie someone selling at too low a price. Laws apply equally to Corsica as to the rest of France. The notaire involved in property sales has to inform the Mairie.Frankly I do not understand bit coin, as strange an unreal to me as the Tulip Mania of 17th century Holland and the South Sea Bubble of almost a 100 years later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckett Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 [quote user="notsofrenchguy"] Bitcoin educated people ... However in the case of real estate sales, crypto currencies can bring advantages... Bitcoins in the hope that they will increase in value in the future, which could be wise in my opinion.[/quote]I think/you know/where this about to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsofrenchguy Posted May 17, 2020 Author Share Posted May 17, 2020 OK so the notary would be paid in euros, for the taxes and their fee?However, they then will have no proof of the actual sale price, which is what those fees are based on, how could they verify that. There are lots of rules associated with house sales in France, including the Mairie having the right to purchase if the price is 'right' for them, ie someone selling at too low a price. Laws apply equally to Corsica as to the rest of France. The notaire involved in property sales has to inform the Mairie.Since the euro is the standard currency in France, unlike Bitcoin, the price will be set in euros, so calculating the fees will not be a problem. Bitcoin is simply the unit of account used for this transaction at a given time, the price of the house remains assessed in euro.There is nothing mysterious or dark about it.It's just more convenient for me to pay in Bitcoin, as it could be in any other foreign currency. Frankly I do not understand bit coin, as strange an unreal to me as the Tulip Mania of 17th century Holland and the South Sea Bubble of almost a 100 years later. There's not much to understand about it, although the technical side is fascinating and can be the learning experience of a lifetime. One could simply say that Bitcoin is a currency that exists on the Internet and can be used for a whole range of applications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notsofrenchguy Posted May 17, 2020 Author Share Posted May 17, 2020 [quote user="Beckett"][quote user="notsofrenchguy"] Bitcoin educated people ... However in the case of real estate sales, crypto currencies can bring advantages... Bitcoins in the hope that they will increase in value in the future, which could be wise in my opinion.[/quote]I think/you know/where this about to go[/quote]I'm not trying to go anywhere, I would simply like to discuss the financial and legal aspects of the subject I've raised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinBretagne Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 Why are Bitcoin any different to pounds, dollars or yen? If you want to buy a house in France just convert your Bitcoin into euros and job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTr@sh Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 If you want an answer to your question, ask a notaire. And let us know what he says, as I am mildly interested.As has been said - you don't pay the seller direct. You pay the agreed sale price into the notaire's account, and the notaire transfers from his account to the seller's account the amount that's left after the deduction of any taxes that are due. It's also normal for a notaire to verify the provenance of the funds being used for the purchase (ie track them back to a savings/investment account or a transaction). For one thing France is very strict on anti-money laundering measures, and for another thing the notaire wants to check it is your own money and you're not actually buying the house on behalf of someone else - there can sometimes a temptation to do this to avoid inheritance tax issues, eg an elderly parent might want to fund the purchase of a house for a step child to bypass succession tax. Not sure how these checks would work with bitcoin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomoss Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 [quote user="notsofrenchguy"]I'm not trying to go anywhere, I would simply like to discuss the financial and legal aspects of the subject I've raised. [/quote]The financial aspect is irrelevant.The legal aspect is that, by law, the funds have to be transferred into a notaires account in Euros, which implies that they come through a recognisable and reputable source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckett Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 Oh well, I'm always interested in a discussion. As someone who is "Bitcoin educated", you'll be in a position to contribute to it, notsofrenchguy. I just think of Bitcoin's untraceability and link that to money-laundering!What is the advantage to you, the buyer, in buying in Bitcoin (rather than converting your Bitcoin yourself into Euros)? Is there any advantage to the seller since if the seller wanted to buy Bitcoin, presumably he could do so anyway?In short, what's the advantage to dealing in Bitcoin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 In short, what's the advantage to dealing in Bitcoin?And what's the disadvantage on top of the possible reluctance of the seller and the almost certain objection of the notaire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 It sounds like an elaborate fraud to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTr@sh Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 The problem is that Bitcoin was designed to be untraceable. Which makes it ideal for money laundering. Of course that doesn't mean that it is ONLY used for money laundering and every transaction is dodgy, but because it's untraceable you can never be sure.To the seller it probably won't make any practical difference if they have unintentionally been involved in money laundering, but probably most people would prefer not to because it would weigh on their conscience. And there's a small chance that you might one day get caught up in an investigation which could be unpleasant. But mostly, it's governments who are keen to crack down on money laundering. And you could argue that stopping criminal activities is also in the public interest. And because there's no way of tracing the provenance of bitcoin and distinguishing between honest users and dishonest users, I guess the honest users will just have to accept the consequences of choosing to use non-transparent payment methods. Their choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mint Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 Good old Wooly, is this your emperor-has-no-clothes moment?[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woolybanana Posted May 18, 2020 Share Posted May 18, 2020 You mean a Bitcoin Let It All Hang out Moment? The sight of a clothesless woolybanana would send them running back to good solid cash, screaming in shock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomoss Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 I have a friend who bought his first house here with cash drawn on a UK credit card.But that was about 30 years ago, and things have changed a lot since then[;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suein56 Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 EuroTrash wrote : And because there's no way of tracing the provenance of bitcoin and distinguishing between honest users and dishonest users, I guess the honest users will just have to accept the consequences of choosing to use non-transparent payment methods. Their choice.Such a good point.Transparency all the way for me. Somehow this proposal sounds dodgy .. as has been previously said the advantage for the purchaser is easy to see but for the vendor it sounds less straight forward.He/she might be implicated in some obscure way in the future .. and that would certainly give me sleepless nights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judith-aka-Judith Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 I wouldn't touch such a propositioin with a barge pole, and I suspect neither notaire or purchaser would either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suein56 Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 nomoss wrote : I have a friend who bought his first house here with cash drawn on a UK credit card.But that was about 30 years ago, and things have changed a lot since thenWink [;-)]Gosh .. imagine the charge(s) for withdrawing a (large) lump of cash on a credit card in a foreign land .. even 30 years ago that would not have been cheap.But then I suppose the house was very reasonably priced ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardengirl Posted May 19, 2020 Share Posted May 19, 2020 I imagine a pantechnicon would be needed even if a cash purchase could be made these days! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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