Sara Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Sorry to start another topic but have lived here for nearly ten years and have a few questions now!!I have not started to teach my son to read or write in english as I did not want to confuse him with the phonetics. He is now 7.This is starting to worry me as there is a posibility I will return to England in 4 years time so that he can start his 2ndry education there. (Not impressed by what I have read or heard about the colleges/ lycees .) I try and read a 2 or 3 chapters of a book in English to my son every night , his last book was' Georges marvelous medicine' and I plan to start 'Charlie and the chocolate factory ' tonight.What age does one start this when you are living abroad and also how hard is it to catch up on those lost years? Is it feasable that he could be at the same level as an English child by the time (if) we go back?Sorry if this has already been raised , I did do a search but could n't see anythingSarah< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladoix Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 Hi Sara,My children are 4 and 6, both born here and in consultation with the maitresse in MS/GS I started teaching the 6 year old to read in English during the holiday between the 2 classes. She is now in CP, learning to read in French and can read in English already, the teacher's reasoning was that it was better to introduce the English early so it became a habit rather than wait a couple of years when the child might judge it an additional burden.I looked into it early as I am an avid reader and know many people who have let their kids' English education slip and didn't want to do the same. We used a mix of Jolly Phonics, Peter and Jane and www.starfall.com and found it a good combination. Phonics teaches the sounds, P & J teaches l'ook and learn' and starfall a combination of both (you have to ignore the American accent).I think at 7 you should crack straight ahead but ensure he learns the basics of how to read rather than just 'guessing' words as he will also need to learn how to spell in English. This summer I intend to introduce English grammer as my daughter often uses the wrong word order in English. Everyone is different so with my youngest I will be led by him as he appears to be a pretty average kid so far whereas my daughter is at the top of her class.We have a new marking system in school this year, introduced to keep us in line with the public schools in the region whereby students are graded from 1-4, (they no longer do notes of out of 20 for children moving up through the system - they have kept it for older children though it is being phased out nationally) 1 meaning 'aquis' down to 4 'non aquis' and the joke of it all is that my daughter has 1 for everything except 'langue étranger' where she achieved a 2!!!!! Now how many 6 year olds can read and write in 2 languages? Shades of things to come I fear!!!On the other hand, I have heard of other people's kids who have just picked it up as they go along, however, I reckon that is the exception rather than the rule, I imagine it also depends on how good your own English is and how many other people they hear speaking English. Our children don't mix with many other English children either so it is up to me to keep their English up to scratch..Good luck with your son and I hope he is doing OK at school! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 Many thanks for your comments , I think I will start very soon. We have lots of Peter and Jane books from which I always buy when I see them in England (charity shops). For christmas I bought him Leap frog with several books (in English) . He enjoys mucking about with it at the moment.I don't really have a lot of spare time as I am really concentrating on the french. I know I will need to find the time very soon. Also I know it is very important for Jac to play and get exercise!! If only there were more hours in the day!!Jacques like your son is average in the class but he is the youngest, he is only just 7 while 2 of the children in his class have just turned 8, so this is a disadvantage. Perhaps if he is pulled back a year I can then say' he is top of the class. 'Once again many thanksSarah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitty Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 I suggest that reading exciting stories to Jacques is a good idea but don't overload him. You will need to do some English with him if you are intending for him to go back to the UK to continue his education. If you were staying in the French system, from the age of 11 or 12, French pupils do almost as much English as French.So reading is a good start, making him follow the words. That way, he will pick up things visually e.g. I (as in "I am") is always a capital letter. So read to him at the table when he can follow the words (you can use a ruler). Every so often stop and ask him to read out one of the easy words so that you know that you are keeping his attention.By the way, ignore all the French teachers that say that you should speak French to him at home. I've lost count of the times that a French teacher has told me this. It is nonsense. Speak to him in his mother tongue and let natural French speakers speak to him in their tongue so that he picks up a proper French accent. That way, he will be enriched in English in a natural way, without even realising that you are educating him.When you speak, instead of pointing our birds in the fields, say that they are starlings. Instead of saying my leg hurts, say my shin hurts or my thigh hurts.You seem to me to be a caring mother and so Jacques is very lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 Many thanks, yet again great advice Cathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patf Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 When you start with written english, encourage him to write letters to friends and family in the UK. Just little notes at first, he will be excited to get the replies. Makes it more fun and practically relevant.Or send emails - but no text language! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 HelloI did as you are considering and returned to the UK for my son to attend secondary education in the UK. He had been in France since aged 3 so had only ever been to school in France. I had always read to him in english and we only spoke english at home, we also watched both english and french television though he always preferred the english channels. He never had any formal 'teaching' nor did I ever push him in that direction, I simply read to him and had him read to me and went through a range on books, the really good thinig was his love of Harry Potter which meant he was keen to read. When we came back he was 10 and due to his DOB this meant whilst he would have been off to secondary school the next year in France, in the UK he had an extra year which I think was important. I enrolled him in some extra classes for his written work, which are easy to find here, and by the end of the first term he was judged to be around average in his class and so now does not attend any extra classes. I've just attended a meeting with his teacher and she believes he will score really well in his SATS and should attain well above average.One thing that my son is behind on is his ability to write creativly since this is not covered (or certainly wasnt in his school) in France, he is now getting into books that require you to chose how the story goes, they are a mix of game and book but Im hoping this will unlock his imagination.So my advice, make sure he is comfortable with reading, dont push it too far, get him writing as much as possble in a fun way, dont over do it, he will get extra help if he needs it when he comes back. I wouldn't worry too much, he will be fine!P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Panda many thanks again, will try and send you a pm tomorrow as I have a couple of questions I would like to ask you. Sarah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 [quote user="Ladoix"]Hi Sara, he will also need to learn how to spell in English. This summer I intend to introduce English grammer .Good luck with your son and I hope he is doing OK at school![/quote]If he needs to spell I suggest he also tries English grammar ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladoix Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 [quote user="NormanH"][quote user="Ladoix"]Hi Sara, he will also need to learn how to spell in English. This summer I intend to introduce English grammer .Good luck with your son and I hope he is doing OK at school![/quote]If he needs to spell I suggest he also tries English grammar ...[/quote][:$] Must learn to type slower! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Hen Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Hello Sarah,Just seen your posting and thought you might be interested in our website: www.blackheneducation.com. We are a small business based in the Charente Maritime,offering 1-1 and online tuition for English children living in France. As ex-teachers from the UK,we have found that parents are becoming increasingly concerned about their childs English skills,particularly if they are planning to return to the UK.We decided to start the business after talking to several parents,and offer English study packs from Key stage 1-4,including our new IGCSE course. The website also offers free competitions for children and we will shortly be launching our new "Blackhen book corner" for book reviews and recommended reading lists.Feel free to contact us if you have any questionsSue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackieC Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Really interested to read about your concerns for your son. This is my first post on the forum as we're looking into all the pros and cons of moving to France with our son who is 7 too. Also I am a primary teacher here and would be very keen to find out if there is any sort of market for tutoring children in English as a possible source of income. Reading your post I wanted to shout, "I can help!!" but it looks like you've had plenty of sound advice. If you have a moment I would be very keen to hear your thoughts and any suggestions. We're considering the Lot-Garonne area for moving but it depends on opportunities for buying a gite as well as tutoring/teaching.Anyone with any advice they can give would be welcome.Jackie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 HelloThe problem you will have in offering your teaching services is that generally people dont have the money to pay for exteranl courses at a level that would be interesting for you as an income stream. Most move with a notion of a money making idea the usual gites/b&B etc. which do not bring in enough money to live on let alone hire in external teachers. So whilst the idea is a good one, you will struggle to get the paying clients IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackieC Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 HiThanks very much for your comments.I've an open mind at the moment and am considering training in TEFL for adults to widen the possibilities.Any other suggestions welcome! We'll carry on gathering info at the moment and hopefully get out to France at Easter to actually meet some gite owners too.Jackie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardengirl Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Several English people we know who have young children have more social-type arrangements for their children's English speaking/writing/reading. Several get together for board games, comic swaps etc. Others send their children to regular weekly sessions where volunteers, usually ex-teachers, provide English lessons, with speaking, reading and writing at a suitable level. I think the idea of doing a TEFL qualification is a good one; many adults are keen to learn or improve their English skills. I've just come back from a social event with AVF, involving some very pleasant wines and good food. Those who are in groups for English were entertaining those of us who are in groups to improve our French. This is a side event to the weekly classes, and. many of the French people are keen to do more, but travelling to Nimes in the evenings isn't welcomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooperlola Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 A friend of mine locally has built up a pretty impressive client base using her TEFL qualification, but it is all ad'-ed' and through a company here which specialises. As others seem to find, there appears to be little money around for a lot of extra tuition for the young (although there is a language school for youngsters in our village, it caters to groups.) Also, my friend has had to work really hard at it and it took a good two or three years of accepting every little job offer going to build up a good reputation, before she could earn a proper living at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharenteMaritime Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 I had the same worry with my son who is also 7, although we have no plans to return to the uk (been here 15yrs, so I think you could say we are settled) we still want our children to be fluent in English. I started with the Peter and Jane books as they use keywords rather than phonics - so he didn't get confused. He's picked it up really well but we arn't consistent and he needs to be able to write and spell in english too, not just read, so we now have 'blackhen education' to help us. (mentioned earlier) The teacher comes just every other week to our house (as we didn't want to overload him) - our son loves it, and is learning, reading and writing all about Egypt at the moment - far more interesting than what he learns at school and its all in English which he thinks is fab ! He couldn't compete with an English taught child of the same age but then he is learning two languages; I think the main thing is to teach him that English is important too. We are confident that as his French reading and writing and spelling progress, so will his English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 My friend's kids were doing brilliantly at 7 and 8, or so she thought, until CM2 which was a nightmare and she was more or less told that they were way behind the others, they had changed schools. The implication was that they were incapable, and in this case did en retard mean retarded, it felt like it to her. First school also a private school with a good reputation? what ever that means and in a very bourgeois small town and certainly not nulle part.My heart sank, stomach did that flip that it had done so many times in the past and I said, 'get out quick'.They started secondary in the UK last Sept and their dyslexia and general catching up being addressed wonderfully.I will never trust french schools or the majority of french teachers as long as I live, thankfully there is a tiny reseau of excellent teachers, who obviously have a natural gift. The state has no interest in them being good at imparting knowledge so that the pupil understands, just that they are 'gave'd' their lessons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 I know that the school that my son goes to is very good, so far he has had two very good teachers and I am hoping that this will continue for CE2 . I have seen other childrens 'work' from other schools and they appear to be behind him. Every night he has to learn a verse or two from a poem (Don't understand this, rather he learnt something more educational... but when in Rome....) He will then have a long page( A4) story to read with either spelling, verbs or maths to do. As I have mentioned before it is not the school work or teachers I have a problem with but the children (!) The majority of them are xenophobic and are not friendly, the boys in particular have sulky faces. Modern life perhaps ? Or maybe we have chosen a 'rough area'. Any one live in an area where the children look at you and smile?The problem we have here is not so much his primary school but we are very concerned for his secondary school in 3 years time, the schools including the private school do not have a very good reputation (regarding work and children). We have been talking about moving some where else in France but where? When we bought this house in 2002 we paid the notaire 10% , would we have to do this again ? We will get poorer and poorer if every time you move you give 10 % to the 'fat cat' Notaire. And where is that perfect place ? We have been seriously thinking about driving our son to a very good private school but it is one hour away! Or we could move back to England, I know we have plenty of time to think but it could take 2 years to sell our house.Oh well the problems us parents have to face.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Homework for kids in primary school was proscribed in the 1960's. Then they said at one point that the lessons at school would finish a little earlier and the 'homework' would be done at school as the end of a lesson.Go figure.Maternelle is good, great idea and I like the ecole maternelles, I cannot think of one good thing to say about the rest of it all. Not one.No where is perfect ofcourse.Sara did you used to post on here a few years ago when you first got to France? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sara Posted February 8, 2011 Author Share Posted February 8, 2011 Yes, when I first moved here in 2002 I put on a couple of posts it was n't anything important, I can't even remember what I put! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyF Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Sara, to be fair to the notaire, the 10% is made up of government taxes and notaire's fees, the taxes being the larger part. I'm afraid you can't avoid paying this every time you buy, which is why so many would-be immigrants to France are advised to rent before buying, just to avoid expensive mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 [quote user="idun"]. I will never trust french schools or the majority of french teachers as long as I live, thankfully there is a tiny reseau of excellent teachers, who obviously have a natural gift. The state has no interest in them being good at imparting knowledge so that the pupil understands, just that they are 'gave'd' their lessons.[/quote]I quite agree and knowing a couple of excellent committed teachers and comparing them to their peers I wonder who is the con?Certainly L'education Nationale does nothing to reward those that are motivated and competent, quite the opposite and it gets worse the higher up the ladder you go, all the proviseurs that I have met, and they are moved or move around a lot are not interested in leadership or building a good team, not that they are allowed to choose who they hire in any case, they just seem to want to get the most out of the system for themselves with the minimum of input.Its very very sad to see people I admire become demotivated and worse to think that financially (pension) they darent change careers like so many of my ex teacher friends in the UK have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debra Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Hmmm - interesting. Mine are now at the point where its quite obvious they are having to think about what they say in English. Even if they don't, I sometimes have to make them because when they come out with a bit of translated French (all back to front and a bit gibberishy) I feel its better to tell them to take a breath and think about it and compose their thoughts before speaking again, rather than pick apart what they are saying. I did say I'd leave teaching English until they had the French off pat - but how do you know when that is as I don't believe an adult can be fluent enough to judge their child's level when that child is living and breathing French 5 days a week, and the adult isn't? Perhaps its better to start teaching English when they start having problems expressing themselves in it and/or spelling it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 My belief was 'english' at home. Ofcourse we only had french tv then, and so many expats have british tv these days that that could affect things.I know kids whose parents spoke mainly french to them at home and they spoke with french accents when they spoke english, and their english would be frenchified. I also know parents who would speak english to their kids and the kids would reply in french all the time.Re reading and writing in english, I didn't. When eldest started CE1 he would come home and his little head would start nodding as he was trying to learn his poesie and he would flop onto the table fast asleep. He had a well balanced diet AND proper bed times. It felt cruel to even consider imposing even more learning on him. Then when I saw how english was taught in college, I think that my teaching english would have confused him even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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