is it true that anyone owing a 4 wheel drive will shortly get heavily taxed in the

[Blade]

months to come in france? does this apply to all regions of france? does it apply to hybrid cars which do both?we are based in south west in countryside. thanks in advance.

[Alcazar]

[quote user="Blade"]months to come in france? does this apply to all regions of france? does it apply to hybrid cars which do both?we are based in south west in countryside. thanks in advance.[/quote]

Well...........the rest of us live in hope[:D]

Alcazar

[Eslier]

I believe that the increased taxation will be in the form of a sharp increase in the  registration fee payable  for the carte grise each time the car changes hands.  It shouldn't affect existing owners but will make 4WDs harder to sell and the second hand values are likely to drop substantially.

For the benefit of those readers who don't yet live in France . . .

Unlike in the UK, owning a 4WD car isn't any sort of status symbol. The French are generally very practical about their cars and would only choose to own one if they needed the 4WD facility. There is no car snobbery, thankfully, over here - people drive what suits their needs. They would sooner spend their money on food and drink than car finance !!

[Teamedup]

Eslier, I don't understand that statement about car snobbery. Most of the french people I know are very 'car proud'. Lots of people we know are on low pay, but my, they buy the best they can afford and will even tart them up with things like fancy hub caps.

 

There have been rumours about quatre quatres being taxed etc but I haven't seen anything confirming this officially as yet.

 

[sid]

It's my observation too that 4WDs are not status symbols here. Many French do take pride in their cars, but that's not the same as snobbery. At least we don't see lines of 4WDs outside the schools (but for a different reason).

I've never understood how manufacturers got round the standards for bumpers on 4WDs; they don't line up with ordinary saloons for example.

Tax 'em or confiscate 'em, I say!!  [;)]

 

 

[Ssc]

Why is there such feeling against owning a 4WD. I never owner one in the UK but here I live out in the sticks and at an altitude of 550m in a very hilly region. In the winter its essential otherwise I would not be able to get out at all sometimes. I bought the smallest 4WD  that would do the job. I get 12 kilometres per litre (gazole) which is better than some non 4WD cars. It's an essential, not a polluting status symbol

Tony

[Dick Smith]

You clearly don't meet the South London school run, or the 'inadequate' men in theirs (in town, always).

[Val_2]

Ssc - that is what they are meant for as workhorses, not poncing about in by lazy mothers afraid to walk to school in case their little darlings get teased, how I despised those people when I used to walk three miles twice a day to take my kids to primary before we came here and those living less than five minutes away would drive in these monsters and take up all the double yellow lines parked outside the school. We  only have a couple round here and they are owned by a farmer who pulls a horsebox and a local roofer.

[David_Janet]

Val - why does the farmer have to pull the local roofer with his 4 x 4?

(sorry, couldn't resist that !)

David

[Val_2]

Its my cat again, clinging to my chest whilst I am trying to type. I meant to say one owner is a farmer who often tows a horse box to the local shows and the other owner is a local roofer who stacks all his tiles in the  back.

[0zeb100ddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue]

Hello

I don't know what  problem people have with 4x4s. If you don't like them don't drive one but please let other people drive what they want. There is a movement who encourage people to let the air out of the tyres of 4x4s which to my simple way of thinking is a bit illegal. I am really looking forward to catching someone doing this to one of my vehicles so that I can discuss the whole 4x4 scenario with them and try to convince them that it is wrong to interfer with other peoples property. It's just a grubby little minority of stupid narrow minded tree huggers who are against just  about everthing who are stiring the crap.

Have a nice day

Regards the Save the Hummer Club   

[Viv]

What kind of prat needs bull bars in a town or city ?

Why is it that every kind of person who falls foul of ZEB 100 is automatically branded a tree hugger?

Why don't you and Le Bouffon just play by yourselves? Or are you already doi

 

The estimated benefit to those pedestrians who are currently hit by vehicles fitted with bull bars, that could be obtained if bull bars were not fitted, is a saving of 6 percent for fatalities and 21 percent for seriously injured casualties.

 

[darnsarf]

Yes, it's true that many urbanites have SUV 4x4s when their local environment doesn't need the added traction. But defending the stereotype, mums (and dads) like them, in part because they are (a bit) fashionable but often because they make them feel safe. The added height means they can see 2 cars ahead rather than one and the ruftytufty design exterior gives the feeling of strength. They are not of course generally safer than an ordinary saloon (certainly not for pedestrians) but its a matter of perception. However, to get all precious about 4x4s on environmental grounds is not entirely warranted. Many 4x4s have better fuel consumption than many standard saloons for example. In addition, the greatest environmental cost is in the manufacture of a car, not the fuel consumption. So it would be better for the environment to buy a 4x4 and keep it for 5 years than to change a standard saloon for a new one every 3. It could also be argued that the last people to argue for the environment are those who fly frequently, whether to a second home, or elsewhere. I don't wish to offend, but the anti 4x4 rant involves quite a lot of stone throwing by people in glass houses. No, I don't own a SUV!

 

PS Most SUVs don't have bullbars

 

 

[0zeb100ddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue]

Hello

I really find my bull bar usfull. When the car in front is hanging about a bit it is nice to give it a bit of a nudge.

Have a nice day and don't forget to hug a tree a day.

 

[Owens88]

[quote user="darnsarf"]

 Many 4x4s have better fuel consumption than many standard saloons for example.

[/quote]

That is quite interesting because if there were one that gave a reliable average above 33mpg (which my petrol saab gives)  or 50 mpg (my diesel citroen C5 saloon) then I  might include it on the list next time.  p.s I only mention my own cars to show that I am not quoting unfair consumption figures from dinky toys. However I do accept that if you are doing low mileage you could be driving a charabanc and still not use much fuel.

In fairness this debate is using the term 4*4's when in fact you can get 4*4 saloons /estates (see Subaru)  which are not as high or imposing but do give better traction than 'normal' cars.

 I suspect the general alienation is to the large 'domineering' vehicles, often with bull bars or other 'furniture' at inappropriate heights for pedestrians and other cars.

Interestingly the people carriers have all the same height advantages for the driver but don't attract as much invective.

 

 

 

[Patf]

There's an activity called greenlaning which seems to be mainly for

4by4s and involves going in a consort along country lanes and generally

polluting the countryside. There has been opposition in UK and now in

France also. We have had a few along the pilgrim route behind our house

even though there are signs up saying no motorised vehicles( except for

tractors. ) I wonder what's the point? Pat.

[Ty Korrigan]

Most of the tyres the Korrigan lets down are in fact of untaxed, uninsured Brit owned  4x4's owned by obese 'people' with beards mostly from Berkhampstead or Upper Dicker...

[0zeb100ddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue]

Hello

I drove down from Calais yesterday and got a very reasonable 15.4mpg from my Range Rover. I suppose all the whining anti 4x4 brigade would have us dress in Mao suits and drive little grey things with a wheel at each corner wot run on margerine. I think the only place where these people would be happy would be North Korea or Jupiter. Well thats a thought why don't all you tree huggers charter a space ship to Jupiter it could be your little paradise. No large 4x4s.

Have a nice day.

[Ty Korrigan]

Connard...

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Patf"]There's an activity called greenlaning which seems to be mainly for

4by4s and involves going in a consort along country lanes and generally

polluting the countryside. There has been opposition in UK and now in

France also. We have had a few along the pilgrim route behind our house

even though there are signs up saying no motorised vehicles( except for

tractors. ) I wonder what's the point? Pat.

[/quote]

There was an outbreak of monkeywrenching around here about 9 months ago

aimed at the various moronic inadequates in 4x4's (a multiplication I

hazard they would possibly have some difficulty with) and pimply youths

on motocrosses who thought that signs didn't apply to them. I would NOT

condone such illegal and potentially dangerous (from a vehicle

safety  point of view) activity, but it was remarkably successful

as some of the morons and pimples were dim enough to call the

gendarmerie. Les Flics promptly threw the book at them for "off

roading" unlawfully and completely ignored the evil monkey wrenchers

who would have been difficult to catch anyway, enjoying as they did the

general grudging sympathy of the locality.

I would recommend getting the gendarmerie involved - they LOVE this

sort of thing, particularly if you are in a recognised tourism area. If

you don't want to get involved directly, have a word with the marie.

[darnsarf]

Here's some examples of fuel consumption taken from whatcar. I've taken the combined cycle, not the extra urban or urban.

Audi Q7 TD  27mpg

Daihatsu Terios Sport 37mpg

Honda HRV VTEC 33mpg

Lan Rover DiscoveryTDV6 30mpg

Mitsubishu Shogun 3.2 TD 30mpg

Subaru Forrester 4x4 30mpg - more of an estate than 'jeep' of course

Toyota Rav 4 2.2 TD - 43mpg

Volvo XC70 2.4D 34mpg

There are of course some major guzzlers out there, as there are of course in 2x4s too.

[Quillan]

I am a very keen 4X4 enthusiast and I am a paid up member of the All Wheel Drive Club and did until leaving the UK race both there, in Africa and a few other places. The licensing requirements are not too dissimilar from formula 1. I currently own a Bowler, that for people who don’t know is exteemly ruuged,  high powered, go anywhere 4X4. I would not dream normally of using this for day to day driving (it is perfectly street legal) although I did use it the other day to get to Quillan because of the snow.

I do go ‘Green Laneing’ but I always abide by the rules, yes there are rules, which clearly state that it is only permitted on un-metalled or private roads. It is not allowed on bridleways or footpaths (or roads that clearly state no motor vehicles) and I would encourage people to report anybody doing this as it is illegal and those doing it give other ‘green laners’ a bad name. Likewise there are speed restrictions of 20MPH or 30KPH for this activity. If they damage the road then they have to repair it. It is also illegal for people who don’t like 4X4’s to obstruct the un-metalled roads.

4X4’s have their place as do all motor vehicles and there is little or no need for them in cities. Likewise I don’t really see much of a need for a family of 4 to have a massive bus like people carrier either which are just as big and pollution making.

My biggest problem is motor bikes. Nearly every weekend they hack around the local footpaths at extreme speed often driven by children between the ages of 6 and 16. I have almost had more than one (when driving on un-metalled roads) as a bonnet trophy and have had to jump in to the bushes several times when walking the dog or get run over.

I would like to see more tax on MPV’s and 4X4’s BUT I would like to see it done on a postcode (or similar) basis. There are people who have a genuine need for a 4X4 (and MPV) and they should not be penalised because of wide boys with 4X4 in cities. People like me who use them for sport would not in general object because keeping your 4X4 road legal is not always required and if it were it’s just part of your hobbies costs.

There are a few irresponsible 4X4 users but please, please don’t tar us all with the same brush.

On the subject of people driving to school would not a car exclusion zone around the schools be a good idea (which has been tried with success in the UK) to protect children etc. Plus some form of charge for those people who drive 4X4’s and massive MPV’s in cities to school half empty?

Perhaps Volvo drivers could also be charged extra, just for driving one [;)] .

[Miki]

"..................as a bonnet trophy and have had to jump in to the bushes several times when walking the dog or get run over."

Makes a change from the days when you used to jump out of them then Chris (allegedly of course !) [:D]

[derf]

You can see some info here.

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/N367.xhtml?&n=Transports&l=N18&n=Automobiles%20et%20deux-roues&l=N529&n=Papiers%20du%20v%C3%A9hicule&l=N533

[Owens88]

Hi Darnsarf

I think that we both pointed out the fule consumption alone is not the absolute environmental assessment (fewer miles is better anyway, and we are neraly all guilty of using flying buses).

FWIW the figures you quote are 'largely' diesels and so should be compared to the 45-50 mpg  a big diesel saloon should give (if we are comparing them as passenger carriers not workhorses - see 'school journey' above).

Mind you I like the new diesel Rav4. No intimidating protrusions, nearly 40mpg combined -- I'll save up. Its a bit small inside but...