Important information for owners of UK registered cars

[Sunday Driver]

For some time on these forums, there have been various posts regarding the use of UK registered cars by those now resident in France and the period in which they need to be re-registered over here.  In the main, opinion has varied, from between six months to infinity.  [;)]

Here is an [url=http://www.securiteroutiere.equipement.gouv.fr/data/revue/revue141/docs/bon_a_savoir.pdf#search=] information leaflet [/url] available from the official Securite Routiere website.

The relevant section translated as follows:

HOW DO YOU DRIVE WHILST WAITING FOR REGISTRATION:

If you have bought a new vehicle in a European Union country, you can drive for one month under cover of the provisional transit registration issued by the authorities of the country of purchase.

If it is a used vehicle, you can drive for one month under cover of the previous foreign registration.  This authorisation to drive under foreign plates is shown on the tax certificate which is obligatory for registration in France, which is issued by the tax office nearest to your residence.

Caution: authorisation to drive under foreign plates is valid only if those plates have not been invalidated by the issuing authority, that is to say, if the official seals have not been retained (for example, the seals on German plates) or if the period of validity has not expired.

The tax certificate (Certificate d’acquisition d’un vehicule terrestre a moteur en provenance de la communaute europeene par une personne non identifiee a la TVA) has the following noted on the reverse:

In conformity with the dispositions of Article 2-VI of the Order dated 05/11/1984, the present certificate is not valid as a certificate of registration.

However, by decision of the Minister for Equipment, Transport and Tourism, and whilst waiting to complete the registration process, the present certificate authorises you from the date of issue, to drive for one month under the valid foreign registration, except in the case where the original registration plates have been withdrawn.  This delay is extended to four months if your vehicle has to be submitted for a single vehicle approval inspection by the DRIRE.

[Quillan]

Well done, well found and thanks for the translation. That absolutly lays that old myth to ground. I am just waiting for somebody to say "Ah yes but....". It's now there in black and white with a link to the original. I really wish the police would enforce this which of course is a totally different question all together.

[Sunday Driver]

At least over here, they give us time to sort things out.

The DVLA state that: "A vehicle which is permanently imported for use in Great Britain must be registered and licensed as soon as possible after it arrives in this country. The vehicle should not be used or kept on public roads until the licensing and registration formalities have been completed. However, if the vehicle needs to have an SVA or MOT test in order to be registered, the vehicle may be driven to and from the pre-arranged test appointment. Thereafter, the vehicle must be kept off the road until the registration formalities have taken place."

[:'(]

[Ron Avery]

Well done SD for the clarification, but it will not change a thing because most of those who flout the registration and other French driving requirements like having a CT or insurance, do not live here (or claim not to because you don't have to pay income tax if you don't really live here) and keep their heaps of junk parked at airports and ports across the country or tucked away in a barn and use them just to potter around the village.  We have all seen them and know the culprits.  What I cannot understand is how they get away with it, our local bar owner has a UK registered car and has lived here for 10 years and the Flicks regularly visit the place.

[aj_dr]

Out of interest....what is permanently importing?????? My son is at Uni

in the UK, he has no permanent address there, so now has a French

driving licence as he uses our address here in France. As he comes back

for the Summer he couldn't get insurance cover from a UK

insurance  Company for more than 90 days out of the UK, at the

time he was under 25, neither would DVLC take a student address for

him. We have now registered his car in France and have insurance cover

for him (Green Card) in the UK for 365 days a year. I wonder what would

happen if he was questioned in the UK for using his French registered

car there for 9 months of the year and not having UK plates????

[WarbWarb]

Okay Ron, any ideas on this please: my Morgan is registered in England, taxed, MOT'd and insured there with a yearly green card. DVLA and my insurance company send the documentation here. I'm not happy about it contravening the rules ...............We have a new french registered car because trying to re-register looked nightmarish and the thought of trying to re-register the Morgan more so. Isn't the Aveyron lovely though?

[chessfou]

"Ah yes but...."

[:P]

That comes from a magazine article of December 2004.

The current "FAQ" section [look for "Questions/Réponses" under

"Ressources" on LH side] of said site

[http://www.securiteroutiere.gouv.fr/index.html ] has, for instance the

following (in response to someone asking about importation of a

currently owned US car from USA):

Si vous avez conservé vos plaques d'immatriculation

américaines, vous pouvez circuler pendant quatre mois sous

couvert du certificat de dédouanement (intitulé 846 A). Dans

le cas contraire, il vous faudra vous adresser à la

préfecture de votre domicile pour obtenir une plaque WW

valable quinze jours et renouvelable une fois.

So, 4 months (my bold and apparently having nothing to do with a

DRIRE inspection), unless they don't have an 846A, in which case it

would be 1 month (2xquinze jours). So, not quite so black and white.

Sunday Driver, you may well be right (I certainly bow to your general expertise in this area - brilliant post

Re: Registering a Car in France)

but I'm still looking to clarify* this current point which will be of

great importance to me - arriving in France (by car - UK reg.) May 9,

becoming resident May 10, driving to Italy  two weeks later for

about 13 days, then back to France, then (not sure, prob to Spain after

a week or two and not fully settled  at  home 

until  end June/early July) probably scrapping that car, so I'm

obviously hoping that I can legally avoid the hassle and cost of trying

to register the car in France within a week or so of moving (will I

even have received my first EDF bill by then?), only to scrap it a

month or two later.

[Quillan]

I think you will find in the case of the US car that it is extended to four months because it is from outside the EU and probably, being made in the US, requires a SVA test.

The original posts information does come from a magazine but if you zoom in it's produced by the French government and is on a government website so I would take it as gospel. I think Sunday Drivers 'expertise' lays in the direction of patients in as much as he spent a lot of time searching for the right information (very well done I might add) and not in in trying to be a French motering law legal begal.

I take it you (Chessfou) will be returning your car back to the UK to scrap it because I seem to remember from another thread here some time back thats it is almost impossible to scrap a none French registered car in France. Even if the law has changed on scrapping forign cars I bet you won't find anyone to do it because of the paperwork involved. Personally if I was going to do all that driving I would much prefer to do it in a car which is not coming to the end of it's life, just on a reliability stand point.

Morgans are sold in France, I have actually been to a Morgan rally down on the (French) south coast so I don't see why registering one in France would be a problem. I have to admit I did drive my Discovery on UK plates for a year here, with UK tax and insurance (the same type as Warb) and I guess I knew it was illegal and justified it by saying I would take the car back to the UK to sell it so it was not worth the hassle. I never got stopped by the police in France so I don't know what what would have happened.

Sure UK insurance companies will give you unlimited EU cover (Landrover Insurance does). French compainies will also give you insurance on a UK registered car. Some will tell you that you have 3 months to get the car registered, others don't bother to tell you anything at all. Insurance companies are the same all over the world, they love taking your money but will look for any legal reason not to pay out.

What the original post did was to point us to a French government website and did a bit of translation for us and now we all know exactly what the law is. It is now up to individuals to decide what they want to do, be legal or break the law. The Morgan owner under the current law should either register the car in France or take it back to the UK and sell it, it really is that simple.

I wonder if this is just an English thing? When I read the post I thought 'brilliant now we know' and then wondered when the first 'Oh yes but.....' answers would appear. Having only lived here in France for four years I have to say that I have heard so much utter crap said in my local bars (and a few other places, don't want to be thought of as a alci) by fellow English persons it beggers belief. They all seem to be 'experts' and it would seem the more they can flout the French systems and not get caught the higher up the 'click' scene they go to such an extent that at some point they almost gain hero worship status. The sad thing is newbies believe all this rubbish and often find themselves greatly out of pocket and on the wrong side of French law. I was lucky in as much as I cottoned on to these morons at a early stage. I got a translator and went and asked the authorities myself for the information I needed. The translator cost be about 150€ per day and saved me around 6,000€. So for those who think the original post is rubbish or does not apply to them then go see the prefecture or better still the police and ask them directly and if you can't speak French take an interpreter.

 

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="chessfou"]
...... but I'm still looking to clarify* this current point which will be of great importance to me - arriving in France (by car - UK reg.) May 9, becoming resident May 10, driving to Italy  two weeks later for about 13 days, then back to France, then (not sure, prob to Spain after a week or two and not fully settled  at  home  until  end June/early July) probably scrapping that car, so I'm obviously hoping that I can legally avoid the hassle and cost of trying to register the car in France within a week or so of moving (will I even have received my first EDF bill by then?), only to scrap it a month or two later. [/quote]

Quillan is spot on.  All US built cars have to have an SVA, so they're automatically given the 4 weeks.  The 846A certificate is for cars originating from outside the EU and it has the 4 week clause on it.

Re your flitting around the fleshpots of Europe, your actual time driving inside France is not going to be that long, so you'll probably get away with it.[;)]

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="aj_dr"]Out of interest....what is permanently importing?????? My son is at Uni in the UK, he has no permanent address there, so now has a French driving licence as he uses our address here in France. As he comes back for the Summer he couldn't get insurance cover from a UK insurance  Company for more than 90 days out of the UK, at the time he was under 25, neither would DVLC take a student address for him. We have now registered his car in France and have insurance cover for him (Green Card) in the UK for 365 days a year. I wonder what would happen if he was questioned in the UK for using his French registered car there for 9 months of the year and not having UK plates????
[/quote]

The DVLA also refer to cars with a current foreign registration, stating that if they are to be used in England for more than 6 months, they must be permanently imported.  Given that your son has no fixed UK address, I don't see how this can be achieved. In practice, I suspect it won't be a problem.

Perhaps if questioned, he could produce his french driving licence, french insurance and carte grise, light up a Gauloise and babble away in some heavily accented french patois. [;)]

[sandt]

just one point on the origional information . i was in the tax office yesterday at barbezieux obtaining a Certificat d'Aquisition for a european vehicle . the time scale given for using on the road  is 15 days  not one month  .  one wonders if the french authorities can ever agree  with one another. no wonder the gendarmes are'nt bothered about this somewhat minor infraction.  they are doing there correct job and trying to halt all the road deaths  in the charente.

 

[Sunday Driver]

My certificate is dated 12 January 2006 and says one month.  I know the french say 15 days when they mean a fortnight, but..........

[chessfou]

Ho, hum.

[quote]What the original post did was to point us to a French government

website and did a bit of translation for us and now we all know exactly

what the law is.[/quote] [quillan]

Oh no we don't! Yes, it's a government website but SD's reference is to

a magazine article and it does not contain a direct reference to the

law, nor, if you look on the site, will you (probably) find the law

itself (I spent about an hour and a half looking). I assume you did not

read the quote from the same web-site that I gave (current as opposed

to a 14-month old mag article).

[quote]I take it you (Chessfou) will be returning your car back to the UK to scrap it[/quote] [quillan]

Nope* - I don't intend returning to UK until 2008 (in rented van) to

collect 10 cases of wine (all French and all UK VAT and duty paid [:'(]) from storage and all my younger son's stuff

following graduation at Oxford.

*Although if you are correct about difficulty of scrapping my old car in France, maybe I'll have to.

[quote]Personally if I was going to do all that driving I would much prefer to

do it in a car which is not coming to the end of it's life, just on a

reliability stand point.[/quote] [quillan]

Well, good for you but how you think you know what the reliability of

my car is I have no idea. Over the years I became accustomed to driving

London-Folkestone-Madrid-Seville-Barcelona-Montpellier-Paris-London on

a regular basis but my current car (though oldish) has only done about

55k (miles) and I much prefer to use a vehicle that I think I know

something about rather than a totally unknown one (the new, French reg

one, we will be acquiring shortly after arrival), not least because it

has just (yesterday and today) undergone a full service (plus £400

worth of bits and pieces).

[quote]Quillan is spot on.  All US built cars have to have an SVA, so they're

automatically given the 4 weeks.  The 846A certificate is for cars

originating from outside the EU and it has the 4 week clause on it.[/quote] [SD]

Well, no, that's not what the FAQ says - it says a fortnight (renewable

once), unless you have the original plates, in which case it's 4 months.

http://www.securiteroutiere.gouv.fr/infos-ref/vehicule/faq/index.html#faq2

as I posted earlier.

[Brilec]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

The DVLA also refer to cars with a current foreign registration, stating that if they are to be used in England for more than 6 months, they must be permanently imported.  Given that your son has no fixed UK address, I don't see how this can be achieved. In practice, I suspect it won't be a problem.

Perhaps if questioned, he could produce his french driving licence, french insurance and carte grise, light up a Gauloise and babble away in some heavily accented french patois. [;)]

[/quote]

But does he not return to France for any other breaks, Easter, Christmas etc? The time of import resets each time the vehicle goes into the UK, so as long as each stay is not more than 6 months, no problem.

By the way, if you saw the number of Polish registered private vehicles on the UK roads, you wouldn't be worrying.

[WarbWarb]

Okay, thankyou for that. I did check with the factory who wanted to help but said I needed to find out just which bit of the documentation was needed as their

file was six hundred pages. If anyone knows of a Morgan owner here, I'ld love to hear from them.

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="chessfou"]Ho, hum.

[quote]What the original post did was to point us to a French government website and did a bit of translation for us and now we all know exactly what the law is.[/quote] [quillan]

I assume you did not read the quote from the same website that I gave (current as opposed to a 14 month old mag article) .[/quote]

I think you're talking about your quote which addresses a different issue - specific to US imports as opposed to Quillan's original remark on the general import position.

[quote user="chessfou"]

[quillan]

Oh no we don't! Yes, it's a government website but SD's reference is to a magazine article and it does not contain a direct reference to the law, nor, if you look on the site, will you (probably) find the law itself (I spent about an hour and a half looking).

[/quote]

No, its not a 14 month old magazine article, its a government issued information leaflet currently published by the official french road safety website - note the reference to gouv in its URL.  (It even contains a photograph of Giles de Robien, the then Minister of Transport, so it must be genuine [;)] )

As far as containing direct reference to the law, it is the same as the DVLA publishing the UK vehicle regulations in an readable (and understandable!) format. You won't find any legal texts on their site.  Besides, I can't imagine an official website publishing an extract from some magazine (a bit like the DVLA cross referring to an item on "Men and Motors" about how to apply for a driving licence).

[quote user="chessfou"]

[quote]Quillan is spot on.  All US built cars have to have an SVA, so they're automatically given the 4 weeks.  The 846A certificate is for cars originating from outside the EU and it has the 4 week clause on it.[/quote] [SD]

Well, no, that's not what the FAQ says - it says a fortnight (renewable once), unless you have the original plates, in which case it's 4 months.
http://www.securiteroutiere.gouv.fr/infos-ref/vehicule/faq/index.html#faq2
as I posted earlier.[/quote]

The FAQ you referred to in your earlier post actually says that US cars may circulate for 4 months - unless they no longer have the original plates. My comment confirmed the general point by Quillan about the extended timescale, without restating the previously mentioned detail regarding the exception. 

[chessfou]

Sorry to labour the point BUT

[quote]No, its not a 14 month old magazine article, its a government issued

information leaflet currently published by the official french road

safety website - note the reference to gouv in its URL.[/quote] [SD]

Oh yes it is ...

It is a "reprint" of pp34-35 of the December 2004 issue of Revue de la Sécurité Routière.

Of course it is an official site

http://www.securiteroutiere.gouv.fr/index.html

and you can readily find the link via the magazine page:

http://www.securiteroutiere.gouv.fr/data/revue/index.html

and thence to:

http://www.securiteroutiere.gouv.fr/data/revue/revue141/index141.html

but it's stretching things to call it an "information leaflet."

It still seems to me to be quite a long way down the pecking order:

(1) Law,

(2) Reference to law,

(3) Official site FAQ (to which I referred),

(4) Official site magazine (the original link),

...

Nonetheless, it's the best we've got ... so far.

[aj_dr]

Ah...yes he does come back for Christmas and also a couple of weeks in January.....BUT then he comes par avion.

[aj_dr]

Sorry, posted wrongly, this was a reply to Sunday Driver

[Sunday Driver]

Chessfou,

I don't know long you want to prolong this, but....

OK, you win the argument.  I was wrong.  It's not a "leaflet".  

It's a "fiche practique a telecharger" and it's attached to Issue 141 of the Road Safety Review. I've clearly mistranslated that as being a separate downloadable "information leaflet". 

You persist in describing it as a 14 month old magazine article, but as I've said earlier, I think that description is misleading.  I prefer to regard Road Safety Review as being an official road safety bulletin dealing with all types of road safety issues published by an official organisation.  The review's editorial index even states that : "The Road Safety Committee Review is produced by the technical communication adviser under the interdepartmental Deputy for Road Safety, Ministry of Equipment, Housing and Transport".  Even you agree that this is an official source.

To my mind, that renders the content definitive, regardless of how we bicker over the description of the delivery mechanism and its position in your pecking order.