Snow Chains

[keith.P]

 Going ski-ing Midi -Pyrenees ,does anyone know if I will need snow chains carried on my vehicle as it is a four wheel drive .

Keith

[Dotty0]

Don't know if its a proper 4x4, no offence but some are a bit girly.  I ski regulary in the Pyrenees and have nearly always needed chains.  Have mainly used a BMW.  Have friends that live 1 hour from the slopes with a Range Rover and they have chains, but don't know if they've used them.

Just have fun ski-ing not trying to get there.

Dotty

 

[darnsarf]

I was in Luchon last week (skiing). There was a big snowfall over the weekend and few cars were making much progress without chains (whether 4x4 or 2x4). Up towards the ski resorts, there are roadsigns insisting on chains. It depends how high you are going and what the weather/road is like but a 4 x 4, even with more traction on the flat, loses it quickly on a steep incline in snow. And when braking over snow, you'll struggle to keep in a straight line and/or slow down at all. I'd get the chains unless there's been a thaw!

[irnbru]

I can't answer for the Pyrénées, but I have seen police pulling all vehicles into a huge laybye on the road to Val d'Isère in the Alps during a snowfall and insisting on chains. No chains and you were turned back. The laybye was obviously built for this purpose.

Anyway, as has been pointed out, they make sense from the practical/survival point of view!

[Teamedup]

irnbru, Know that chain up layby going to Val d'Isere well. We always have chains with us when going skiing. One just never knows when one will need them.

[Sunday Driver]

I remember New Years Eve many years ago, arriving at the bottom of Blaydon Bank in Tyneside in the middle of a blizzard.  The party was at the top  of the very steep hill, but the police were stopping everyone from going up.  I was in my old VW Beetle and I asked the copper if we could have a go.  He say "Aye, go on, then kidda". 

We got up "nee botha" . 

Who needs a 4x4?   [;)]

[MargaretD]

Get some, and be prepared to use them.  Last weekend we were parked on a road on the way up the Alps (before any laybys for putting them on) as we couldn't move.  The 4x4 infront of us slid even more spectacularly than us!  In the end we saw him buying a second set in the resort, as he had tried to follow us, but wanted to use his 4x4 facility, but kept slidding.

But, we can get our chains on and off in seconds (well, just under a minute) but the first time - I think it took ......  I'm not going to say.  At least I can get to and from work in the Champagne area when the snow falls, using roads that would be closed in the UK for snow.

Margaret

[Paul Bradford]

Hi Keith,

My belief is that you are required to carry snow chains in the snow risk areas. I haven't found anything yet to say that 4 x 4 vehicles are exempt. Last year I stopped at every garage and supermarket en route to the Pyranees in an effort to find some for my Jeep Cherokee. The particular size was not in stock. I was quite concerned about getting stopped by the Gendarmes and was preparing to explain in my imperfect French that we had tried everywhere. As it happens, on the route up to Bonascre (Ax-les-Thermes) we were waved on by the Gendarmes. The car performed quite well on the steep roads up to the resort. This year I purchased them via the internet before we left for peace of mind. Less snow and hardly used four wheel drive at all!

I would have them anyway, as I've never been on one of those 4 x 4 courses ( I suspect neither have most owners ) to find out the capabilites of the vehicle (and driver!).

Am I right in saying that the French do not produce a civilian 4 x 4 vehicle?

Regards

Paul

[Anton Redman]

<<  Am I right in saying that the French do not produce a civilian 4 x 4 vehicle ? >> The Renault Megane Scenic is available a 4x4. You can spot them by the spare wheel which is mounted in the hatch. The Renault 4 was available with four wheel drive. 

[Quillan]

There is a thing about inexperienced 4X4 drivers and snow, they seem to think they don't need snow chains "because a friend told us" and do not really understand the principles or driving skills required to drive in such conditions.

I had two sets of wheels for my Disco for summer and winter, the winter ones were also for semi serious off roading. To drive without chains you need a minimum of a 40/60% tyre that’s 40% on road and 60% off road. Ideally you should use a 'nobbie' or 'mud plugger' but the latter are not as good on roads as they don't last very long on tarmaced surfaces and are also rather noisy. The default tyre fitted to most, if not all, normal 4X4’s are purely on road because they make the least noise on tarmac.

The way a 40/60% tire works is that the tread pattern gets bigger and also goes up the side walls as the percentage of off road capability increases. They are unusually available from 60/40 to 20/80. A good make sold in France is the Michelin Syncro.

The reason for the grip going up the sides is because as the wheel passes through the snow it compresses it vertically and gets compressed in to the tyre pattern, the tread on the sidewall increases the amount of total tread in contact with the snow.

Personally after living in Norway for two years I would prefer studded tyres, much safer and contrary to belief they don’t destroy the road surface, still not perfect but by far the best solution in snow and ice but in France and like the UK they are illegal.

Just to finish off my mates who hunt and have 4X4’s always carry chains, shovel and a fold up metal road (or a bit of old carpet).

Some tips for driving in snow.

ALWAYS take snow chains.

Read the road and choose the appropriate speed (I usually drive very slowly around 10MPH sod the queue behind me, I just pull over and let them pass)

Be aware of the terrain and weather conditions. Wind, forest and bends can be a bad combination as the wind makes the snow drift on open roads but the snow will sit heavier where the trees are as there is no wind. Some times it is possible to have very little snow on the road in the open and get halfway round a bend where there are trees and there it all is, you panic, stick your foot hard on the breaks and thats the end.

NEVER break going in to bend, always break very slowly before.

Use a low gear; keep in 4^th as much as possible. This reduces the torque transmitted from the wheels to the road surface and your wheels are less likely to spin.

Know where the weight is in the car and try to distribute it equally. If all the weight is in the front then the back will slide. Don’t think about putting the weight over just the drive wheels it does not work that way.

Skidding, there are two forms, under and oversteer.

Oversteer is when your car turns too much and the rear end skids out. To get out of this you should turn in to the skid and apply power (you will find you have a mental problem here, often called Target Fixation by experienced drivers as you will tend to want to do nothing or apply the break, absolutely fatal).

Understeer is where you turn the wheel but the car goes straight on and is the result of entering a corner too fast or breaking in a corner. The natural reaction is to turn the wheel further, NEVER do this. On some cars you can simply let go of the steering wheel, on others you must turn in the opposite direct, the object is to let your wheels go straight. The reason is that the front (and probably the back) wheels have lost traction so by turning them in the opposite direction and taking you foot of the throttle with make them grip again NEVER apply the break.

If you have traction control turn it off as like stability programs, abs and other electronic gadgets they do not work in these conditions.

At 40MPH the stopping distance on snow should be multiplied by 17.

You stand a better chance of getting grip with a 4X4 than with two wheel drive but not that much more. A 4X4 is not that much better unless kitted out specially as I have mentioned previously.

Contrary to belief these actions are the same for front and rear wheel drive cars.

Ideally try and visit a skid pan at some time or another to understand how your car reacts in these conditions. If you can’t get to a skid pan try a field where you can’t do any damage (to you or the field).

Happy (and safe) driving.