Vehicule de Collection - department restrictions

[mayenne53]

Hello

Any classic car owners out there, with a french registered car under the 'collection' Carte Grise, do you know if the restrictions on leaving adjoining departmenst has been lifted? I had heard it was being relaxed from January this year.

 

[Sunday Driver]

The changes have been postponed and are now likely to come into force in January 2008.

 

 

[AnOther]

I understand the even when the changes come in it will still not possible to take it ouside France.

Apart from the 5 yearly CT what other advantage/disadvantage is there to registering under "Vehicule de Collection" and what is the French definition for it ?

I will definately be wanting to take my MG to Germany and Austria on occassion and maybe even UK once in a while so will probably re-register it as a standard vehicle.

Also, if one did register a vehicle as "Vehicule de Collection" and then wanted to sell it in UK (or somwhere else outside France), if it's not allowed to leave the country how could you get it there without trailering ?

Not that I would ever consider selling my MG of course  [:-))]

A bit like 'er indoors I suppose, we've been together too long and travelled too many miles........[kiss] [kiss]

[Iceni]

[quote user="ErnieY"]

A bit like 'er indoors I suppose, we've been together too long and travelled too many miles........[kiss] [kiss]

[/quote]

Sadly though only the Morris has a resale value. [:(]

John

not

[AnOther]

Don't know about that John but more than my life's worth to ask for an independant valuation...[:-))]

[Sunday Driver]

The carte grise de collection was introduced in order to allow old vehicles (eg, ancient cars rotting in barns) to be restored and put back on the road with limited circulation rights, without having to comply with modern technical and safety standards.  Look on it as part of the preservation of France's heritage.

Whilst this now provides the opportunity for more recent cars to bypass strict type approval import regulations, it should really only be considered as a last resort, given the restrictions you mention.  It's always preferable to get a normal carte grise if possible as it's usually impossible to reverse the process.

 

 

[Chancer]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

 

Whilst this now provides the opportunity for more recent cars to bypass strict type approval import regulations, it should really only be considered as a last resort, given the restrictions you mention.  It's always preferable to get a normal carte grise if possible as it's usually impossible to reverse the process.

[/quote]

S.D.

You may remember that we conversed by PM some while back re type approval, can you expand on the above i.e "more recent cars"?

I thought that it was being increased from 25 to 30 years but would love to hear different.

[Sunday Driver]

JR

By "more recent cars" I was thinking along the lines of  60's onwards rather than the older veterans/classics.  Mainstream manufacturered cars which were sold in France (eg, the Ford Cortina) will be OK for type approval, but there are some "classics" that aren't.

One example is a friend of mine with a 70's Jensen Interceptor. It had the US V8 engine and with Jensen no longer around, there was no chance of any type approval/technical documentation for the SVA, so he put it on a CGC.

 

 

 

[Chancer]

Thanks SD

I had assumed that I would have to put my 1972 Lotus Elan on CGC when I finally unearth and restore it, do you think that there is a possibility of registering it normally then?

[AnOther]

I'd be surprised if you couldn't do something with this with regards to a C of C. Have you been in touch with Lotus or the owners club ?

Lotus also have at least 5 dealers in France, Cannes, Paris, Seclin, St. Etienne and Tarbes so maybe one of those would be worth a call if your French is up to it. You can get their details from the Lotus site.

Good luck

[Sunday Driver]

JR

According to the [url=http://www.club-lotus.fr]Club Lotus France[/url] website, there were 64 French Elans registered as members in 2005. 

I'd be inclined to contact Hethel regarding the process of obtaining a type approval attestation for France.  In the unlikely event that Lotus can't supply this, then they should be able to provide the necessary technical documentation for a DRIRE single vehicle approval inspection, which would also get you a carte grise normale.

 

 

 

[AnOther]

There you go then JR, a thouroughly researched and authoratative reply such as we've come to expect from SD.

Bet that's fair made your day........now just the minor matter of getting the beast restored.........[:D] [:D] [:D]

[Chancer]

Exactly ernie

Sadly it is just a hypothetical discussion at the moment, I have her stored here in France and had recently made the sensible but heart rending decision to sell her, that is untill I refuelled my passion by attending a local classic car rally.

There were some beautiful and very rare/interesting French classics but the British made contingent was a couple of (admittedly quite nice) MGB's and a clapped out Capri being driven by "Le Kevin" with his baseball cap on backwards.

[cooperlola]

[quote user="J.R."]

There were some beautiful and very rare/interesting French classics but the British made contingent was a couple of (admittedly quite nice) MGB's and a clapped out Capri being driven by "Le Kevin" with his baseball cap on backwards.

[/quote][:D]

Coo, that's so bang-on. We have a local group around here who meet on the first Sunday of each month and park in the local LeClerc car park.  All French apart from the MG's - what is it with them and the French?  I have a friend who has 3 and is totally obsessed with them.  Ernie, you're the marque expert....

[AnOther]

Thank you for the compliment Coops and true I do know my MGB's pretty well inside out but as for being the Marque expert, not sure I can live up to that one [:$]

I think the thing with MGB's is largely one of affordability, availability and practicality. People who aspire to a bit of retro motoring often want something with sporting pretensions and whilst in standard form at least, the B is not particularly fast it is not a slouch either and is still a good looking sports car which is fun to drive and relatively cheap to buy and run.

With prices ranging from as little as 1.5k for a rough but useable late rubber bumper GT up to 5 or 6k for a reasonably tidy chrome bumpered Roadster (Concours and silly money cars excepted) there's precious little you could buy which would give you as many [:D][:D][:D] per mile ?

Folks are also generally more comfortable with what they know as well which is why you probably don't see too many Brits tootling around in French classics.

[Chancer]

A couple of times a year I go to the local lycee and talk to the trainee mechanics and body repairers (carroseurs??) as a guest during their English classes, they ask me questions in English and I reply in French.

One young lad has an astonishing command of English by comparison to the others, his family run a garage specialising in restoring MG midgets and he drew the short straw of being the one having to phone the specialists in England to order the parts.

[mayenne53]

[quote user="J.R."]

Thanks SD

I had assumed that I would have to put my 1972 Lotus Elan on CGC when I finally unearth and restore it, do you think that there is a possibility of registering it normally then?

[/quote]

JR - a friend of mine locally is a LOTUS man, he has already done one of his 'Loti' and has another to do shortly. Regarding Conformity certs etc, not available for our older cars, so the 'collection' route is the best, plus the larger engined, higher horsepower cars wont pay as much registration tax,

Jamie

[cooperlola]

Well, if ever I have the good fortune to be able to run a classic here, it would certainly be an Alpine.  Cannot imagine why a patriotic Frenchman would want an MG!  However, Ernie, I do take your point and reckon you are right.

We once sent Paul (the owner of the Moggie in my avatar) off to the baker's to buy some croissants.  He took two hours getting them because he just could not get away from the hoards of local enthusiasts who gathered round the car and interogated him about all the ins and outs of a duck's b** about the old girl.  Diffiicult as he doesn't speak French.....

[AnOther]

[quote user="cooperlola"]Well, if ever I have the good fortune to be able to run a classic here, it would certainly be an Alpine[/quote]Do you mean the Renault Alpine 110 or the Sunbeam Alpine ?

The former I've always lusted after, if the latter I'd rather have the V8 4.7 Tiger, but [:(]ly both are outwith my budget although either would bring a big [:D] to my face...........

Here's the dilemma: if you wanted a French sporty classsic your choices are somewhat limited, even more so if you wanted a rag top. At this moment in fact I'm struggling to think of anything that fits the bill.

Suggestions on a postcard please..............

[cooperlola]

Renault, please!  Sorry it wasn't clear - I was thiking patriotic French here.  But rag-tops, no, never really been into them.  Not sure that I'm prepared to put up with the aero-dynamic payoff against performance.  Speed and handling are all!!!!

I'll put my thinking cap on though...

A good friend of mine has a DB Panhard.  Now there's a thing.... Doesn't go, but very pretty.

btw, Ernie, only a couple of months to go....

[Chancer]

[quote user="ErnieY"]

[Suggestions on a postcard please..............

[/quote]

Renault Floride, Renault Dauphine.

[cooperlola]

Delage?

[Chancer]

[quote user="mayenne53"][quote user="J.R."]

[/quote]

JR - a friend of mine locally is a LOTUS man, he has already done one of his 'Loti' and has another to do shortly. Regarding Conformity certs etc, not available for our older cars, so the 'collection' route is the best, plus the larger engined, higher horsepower cars wont pay as much registration tax,

Jamie

[/quote]

Jamie

Do you think you could ask your man for his opinion on the (french) value of my car? 1972 Elan S4 fhc in either restored or original unmolested condition?

I recall about 10 years ago having to fight off rich Belgians wanting to buy it, I am sure at that time restored ones in race trim eligible for international historic racing were trading for £35k in Belgium, the restoration was only too race car standard as well.

My friend who is storing it with a lot of his and other owners Panhard Levassors keeps telling me that someone wants to buy it despite my refusals.

[AnOther]

[quote user="cooperlola"]

Delage?

[/quote]D'accord, tres bien, but perhaps I should have added affordable to the specification...!

In a quandry about LM at the moment. Definately still going but not sure which side of the pond I'll be hanging my (Dick's?) hat up by then, hopefully the right side....[:D]

Re Renault Dauphine/Floride, despite sounding like a water additive the latter looks quite interesting but the Dauphine isn't very inspiring.

Keep em coming though........!

 

[mayenne53]

J.R

The best way to check current going rates is on the online auction sites -I will ask my friend, but of course condition and who's looking dictate values too. He is converting his current Lotus to LHD, makes it more valuble across here...