Getting a French driving license

[Rob G]

My wife and I have been talking for months about exchanging our UK driving licenses for French ones (the main reason being the nightmare scenario of having to take the French driving test if we lost our UK licenses). We finally got round to going to our Sous-Préfecture (Le Havre) this morning, having researched the process and requirements on this site and elsewhere.

I shoudl never have expected it to be straightforward. Having waited half an hour for our number to be called, we were first subjected to dissuasion tactics ("You do realise you don't really need to change your license, don't you?"). When it became clear that we had good reasons for wanting to exchange our licenses, we were then given forms to take away ("Demande de délivrance de permis de conduire") and an information sheet for foreigners wishing to exchange their license.

The information sheet is what is confusing us. It says we have to supply the following:

- 3 copies of both sides of existing driving license

- One copy of both sides of the first "carte de séjour" delivered on French territory

- Two ID photos

The problem is that we don't have cartes de séjour; having researched the subject fairly thoroughly some time ago, we came to the conclusion that having a carte de séjour is no longer a requirement for EU citizens. To add to the confusion, the following paragraph is printed on the bottom of the information sheet (my translation follows):

"Dans le cas où les autorités étrangères n'auraient pas répondu à notre demande d'authentification avant le délai d'un an à compter de la date de délivrance du 1er titre de séjour, il ne pourrait être procédé à l'échange du permis de conduire étranger."

"In the event that the foreign authorities do not respond to our authentication request within one year of the delivery date of the first titre de séjour, it will not be possible to exchange a foreign driving license."

So we are now wondering, do we have to go and get a titre de séjour before they'll agree to exchange our licenses? And if so, what kind of hoops will they ask us to jump through to get one? Why should exchanging a driving license require us to present a titre de séjour which we are not legally required to have? (Can you sense the frustration?)

Would love to know if anyone has had similar experience, or has any tips on how best to approach this.

Thanks,

Rob

[Clair]

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1192687/ShowPost.aspx

[Rob G]

Hi Clair,

Thanks for the link. I had read various threads like this, and various "official" French sites explaining what is required, but have just come across the following sentence:

"A noter : les citoyens de l'EEE et Suisses ne sont plus soumis,

sauf exception (citoyens des nouveaux Etats membres de l'UE exerçant

une activité professionnelle), à l'obligation de détenir un titre de

séjour en France."

This seems to confirm that they shouldn't be able to insist on a titre de séjour. However, as we all know, even if that is the official line, each region seems to interpret the law as it sees fit - so it remains to be seen what they will say when we take back our completed forms with no titre de séjour. I think I'll take a copy of the official text with me.

Rob

[Clair]

Do it by post...

[Rob G]

That's an idea...but then I don't really want to send my original driving license in the post, and it says in the blurb they gave us that they have to see the original.

Rob

[gosub]

Don't forget if you want to exchange your UK licences and want to keep all the groups on it (Towing larger trailers or a caravan for example) then unless you have a medical certificate you will not be able to transfer these groups.

You will not have to take a driving test in France if you hold an EU licence, just do the licence exchange before your 70th birthday, if the rules change, I am sure that you will get plenty of time to make a decision on when is the right time to change.

[Rob G]

Hi Les,

The issue is this (at least, this is what we have understood): if one of us were to lose our UK license, the DVLA would not issue a replacement since we no longer have an address in the UK. And the only way you can get a French license, other than in exchange for a license from another country, is by taking the French driving test. Once you've got a French licese, if you accidentally lose it, the process for getting a duplicate license is relatively straightforward (i.e. as straightforward as any bureaucratic process can be expected to be here!).

Rob

[Clair]

Les Conditions de reconnaissance et d'échange des permis

de conduire délivrés par les états appartenant à l'Union Européenne et

à l'espace Economique Européen l'arrêté  du ministère de l' Equipement

du 8 février 1999 - (J. D. du 2012)

Conditions de reconnaissance et d'échange des permis

de conduire délivrés par les états appartenant à l'Union Européenne et

à l'espace Economique Européen

Arrêté  du ministère de l' Equipement du 8 février 1999 - (J. D. du 2012)

Art. 3.

Les titulaires d'un permis

de conduire obtenu dans un Etat appartenant à l'Union européenne ou à

l'Espace économique européen peuvent faire enregistrer leur permis

de conduire à la préfecture du département où ils ont leur résidence

normale, telle que définie à l'article R. 123-1 du Code de la route.

Dans ce cas, une attestation d'enregistrement est remise au conducteur,

en vue d'appeler l'attention du nouveau résident sur la procédure à

suivre si son permis d'origine contient des dispositions différentes de celles du permis français.

[powerdesal]

Just a thought..... If you have any relatives still living in UK, would it not be easier to tell DVLA now that that is your address and then in future, if there is a problem of loss, you can apply for a replacement using that address. I think that the DVLA have no legal problems with that, irrespective of the wording on the paper copy. I have however been known to be wrong.

[Callie]

We still have British driving licences and use my parents' address as the point of contact. We have the credit card size one which has to be renewed every 10 years because of the photo.

I wish to have a Permit Bleu, obligatory for driving an ambulance and they will not accept a UK licence. So as my licence is shortly due for renewal, it is time to consider changing.

Many thanks for the info on this thread - I was going to ask various questions, just trying to think how to word it. So, everybody,in fact, your helpful posts have sorted it out in my mind. I didn't know you would have to show a medical certificate to keep your Permit E......

I WILL HAVE TO EXCHANGE MY LICENCE ! ! !

[Keith CHANNING]

This just shows up the insular, idiotic system that tells you it is a legal necessity to notify a change of addess to DVLA only to find, when you do, that they will only accept an address with a valid UK postcode.

How is one supposed to comply with such idiocy?

[Sunday Driver]

Rob G

There is no nightmare scenario of having to take the French driving test in the event of you losing your UK licences.  If that happens, you just request a letter from the DVLA setting out your driving entitlements and use that to apply for an exchange French licence.  The letter is a substitute for a replacement UK licence, which cannot be issued now that you are living abroad.

As regards the information provided by your sous-prefecture, I suspect they have given you the sheet pertaining to non-EU licenceholders.  The actual documents required from us EU'ers are clearly set out on the Seine-Maritime prefecture website.

That's where everyone else normally goes to find out exactly what's needed.......[Www]

 

 

 

[Ron Avery]

So on the same  basis Rob used for believing he had to get a French driving license, ie losing the document,  should I now apply for a French passport?

[Rob G]

Sunday Driver,

Thanks for putting our mind at rest re the "nightmare scenario".

Additionally, I've just been on the Seine-Maritime prefecture website and read the relevant section. The requirements set out are simpler than what we were asked for when we went there in person, although it does say you need a carte de sejour. I really don't understand this, as the law says that citizens of other EU countries aren't required to have a carte de sejour. I went onto the "titres de sejour" section of the website and it says you normally  have to apply for one within twh months of being here. So could we even get one if we wanted to?

My wife said the same thing as you - that we had maybe been given the sheet that applies to non-EU nationals. However, the woman looked at our British passports before giving us the sheet, and it says nothing about who it applies to - so it appears they only have one sheet for everyone.

French bureaucracy is enough to conduire you up the mur!

Rob

[Suze01]

[quote user="gosub"]Don't forget if you want to exchange your UK licences and want to keep all the groups on it (Towing larger trailers or a caravan for example) then unless you have a medical certificate you will not be able to transfer these groups.

[/quote]

You cannot get the certificate from any doctor.  You have to go to an approved doctor.  You can get the list from your Mairie.  I have fairly recently got my categories added retrospectively having changed my licence over a few years ago.  The medical is fairly basic and costs about €25 which is non-reimbursable.

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

[quote user="powerdesal"]Just a thought..... If you have any relatives still living in UK, would it not be easier to tell DVLA now that that is your address and then in future, if there is a problem of loss, you can apply for a replacement using that address. I think that the DVLA have no legal problems with that, irrespective of the wording on the paper copy. I have however been known to be wrong.

[/quote]

Not sure about that one. My Aussie wife, who has a British passport and therefore a British citizen was faced last year with the prospect of having to take a French driving test because we had lived here too long (????) and her Aussie licence is no longer vaild here (stupid bureacracy).

Anyway, I thought I'd get round this by seeking to apply for a UK one fo her. I phoned the DVLA and they stated that she must have a UK address and be resident at it in order to receive a UK licence. Not sure if this applies also to replacement licences but the jobsworth was pretty adament that residency is necessary to get a UK licence.

As it stands, we still haven't done anything about it, she hates driving, but perhaps one day she'll take the test.

[Clair]

[quote user="LyndaandRichard"]Not sure about that one. My Aussie wife, who has a British passport and therefore a British citizen was faced last year with the prospect of having to take a French driving test because we had lived here too long (????) and her Aussie licence is no longer vaild here (stupid bureacracy).[/quote]

This is also what happens to US citizens residing in France.

There is a 1 year period during which some US licences can be exchanged for a French one.

If the US licenceholder waits more than a year, he will have to obtain a French licence from scratch.

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

Yep, so we discovered. Stupid isn't it? A car is a car, to drive is to drive. You can drive for up to a year with no problems, but suddenly after a year, you can't! I know many other countries have the same thing and that is equally as stupid. In fact Australia is crazier. I had to take a test myself (no exchange there), yet it is far, far easier to drive in Australia than in the UK (no cars are parked in the middle of the road like the UK for example). Yet if I was Swiss, I could go and exchange my licence straight away for an Aussie one without taking a test.

Totally illogical, yet that is what governments are.

[Clair]

Silly, isn't it?

Licences from some US states aren't even recognised in France and the licence holder has to start from scratch [blink]

[Phil & Pat]

[quote user="Keith CHANNING"]This just shows up the insular, idiotic system that tells you it is a legal necessity to notify a change of addess to DVLA only to find, when you do, that they will only accept an address with a valid UK postcode.

How is one supposed to comply with such idiocy?

[/quote]

From  http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/DG_10023103

Moving to another country

If

you move to another country, you should check with the driving licence

authorities there for information about driving and exchange of

licences. It will not be a requirement to notify DVLA of a change of

address when moving to live abroad.

(my italics)

[Keith CHANNING]

This becomes more bizarre by the minute! As I understand that reference, it is officially proposed that an emigré will be driving on a licence with a false address - further, that if (as we all may on occasions) we return to UK for a short period, we should knowingly drive in the UK using a UK driving licence bearing a false UK address. Incroyable!

I wonder how plod would cope with that situation?

[Phil & Pat]

Not necessarily false, just not current.  Perhaps there is a difference in law?

[Sunday Driver]

According to the DVLA, UK resident licenceholders are required to notify them of any change of address.  If you have moved abroad and live in another EU member state, then you are no longer subject to that requirement.  Your licence remains valid for driving anywhere in the EU - including the UK.

 

 

[cooperlola]

When I moved over here (and before I had discovered the existence of the estimable Sunday Driver), I wrote to the DVLA to ask about this.  They sent me a letter which, in essence, says what Mr Driver just has.  I keep a photocopy of this letter with my license when driving in the UK, just in case I come across a plod who is unaware of the rules (which happens, as a certain poster on here discovered recently, to his cost.)

[TefkaC]

As I was moving over to france I phoned the DVLA to ask what to do re license  the reply was "do as the french do over here, whats that? nothing".

Good to see you back SD.

 

Charlie.......