caravan registration

[pogo]

Hi.Does a caravan have to be registered,to a specific address,and can an ex-brit one be changed to french registration without too much cost/fuss? Thanks.pogo

[Bob T]

I think that it needs its own Carte Gris, so I assume it will be registered to an address. I am not a caravaner but have heard that it can be very difficult to import a UK van to France.

Someone with much more knowledge than me will be along soon.

[Sunday Driver]

Yes, a caravan will be over 500kgs so it'll need it's own registration -  and its own insurance.

As most UK caravans are manufacturered for the UK home market, your particular van model is unlikely to have been type approved for France.  That means it'll have to go through its own type approval technical inspections before it can be certified for importing into France.

You will first need to submit it for a check of the gas and electricity installations for conformity to French safety standards.  This is usually carried out by an organisation called Bureau Veritas and the cost will be approximately 250 euros. To comply, you may have to change gas regulators (if your's is an older van) and replace UK three-pin sockets with continental ones.

It will then have to be submitted to the DRIRE for a single vehicle approval inspection.  You will need to obtain technical specifications from the UK caravan manufacturer so that the French inspectors can assess whether your van complies with French saftey regulations in terms of chassis, braking system, tow hitch etc.  If it does, then you'll be called in for a quick physical inspection, following which, you will receive a DRIRE type approval certificate which will be sufficient for registration at your local prefecture.  The cost for this will be 86 euros.

Some cost and hassle involved, but not an impossible task.

 

[Logan]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

Yes, a caravan will be over 500kgs so it'll need it's own registration -  and its own insurance.

As most UK caravans are manufacturered for the UK home market, your particular van model is unlikely to have been type approved for France.  That means it'll have to go through its own type approval technical inspections before it can be certified for importing into France.

You will first need to submit it for a check of the gas and electricity installations for conformity to French safety standards.  This is usually carried out by an organisation called Bureau Veritas and the cost will be approximately 250 euros. To comply, you may have to change gas regulators (if your's is an older van) and replace UK three-pin sockets with continental ones.

It will then have to be submitted to the DRIRE for a single vehicle approval inspection.  You will need to obtain technical specifications from the UK caravan manufacturer so that the French inspectors can assess whether your van complies with French saftey regulations in terms of chassis, braking system, tow hitch etc.  If it does, then you'll be called in for a quick physical inspection, following which, you will receive a DRIRE type approval certificate which will be sufficient for registration at your local prefecture.  The cost for this will be 86 euros.

Some cost and hassle involved, but not an impossible task.

 

[/quote]

Dear SD.

I have been advised by my insurance agent in France that a caravan under 750kg does not need separate assurance or a carte gris. The towing vehicle covers this for civil responsibility and the number of the car is placed on the back of the caravan. Aka the UK.

[Jacqui Too]

Friends of ours took a large twin wheeled UK caravan to France several years ago, to go house hunting.They found a place, moved over permently and registered their car soon after, they were either unable to or it was to difficult to register the caravan.  As they had put it on a site along way away from where they lived, it became ilegal for them to tow it with their French regestered car and the caravan was tecnically marrooned in France!

They were left with 2 fiesible options 1. get a british car owner to take it back to the UK, 2. get it transported by lorry back to the UK.

Thats were we came in, we wanted a caravan, so we went over and towed it back, needless to say we had a good deal!

But it solved their problem

Now we are taking it back to live in France!! (caravan not us)

Chipie

P.S. Can we  please have a spell checker??????

[Sunday Driver]

Logan

Sorry, but your insurance agent has given you incorrect advice.

Code de la route Art R322-1:

Tout propriétaire d'un véhicule à moteur, d'une remorque dont le poids total autorisé en charge est supérieur à 500 kilogrammes ou d'une semi-remorque, qui souhaite le mettre en circulation pour la première fois, doit adresser au préfet du département de son domicile une demande de certificat d'immatriculation en justifiant de son identité et "de" son domicile.

So, any trailer (and that includes caravans) with a gross weight over 500kg is required to be registered.  Any trailer over 750kg has additionally to be braked.

Trailers under 500kgs are covered by the towing car's registration, and therefore by its insurance.  Trailers over that weight require their own insurance under their own registration number.

 

[Logan]

Thanks for that Sunday Driver. I have copied your reply in French and sent it to my Agent for his 'further advice.' The conflicting advice you receive from French professionals really is dire. What chance we have when things go wrong is no chance. Learned that to my cost. An attitude persists in France that you believe what folks say at your own risk. Wonderful. No wonder the French are so sceptical about everything.

Chipie.

It is a myth that it's totally illegal to tow an English caravan behind a French car. The problem is that English caravans are not separately matriculated in the UK with their own carte gris. If they were then it would be legal in France. Spanish caravans for example are separately matriculated and can be legally towed behind a French car. I maintain that if you separately insure an English caravan, have a registration number on the back which is registered to you in UK and have some documentary proof of that ie: a CRIS registration form and the DVLA formV5 registration in your name it goes a long way to being legal in France. Only a legal test case would prove otherwise. 

In another example. Haulage companies in Europe have separately registered tractor and trailer vehicle units registered in different EU countries and are legally used in France.

[Jacqui Too]

[quote user="Logan"]Chipie.

 I maintain that if you separately insure an English caravan, have a registration number on the back which is registered to you in UK and have some documentary proof of that ie: a CRIS registration form and the DVLA formV5 registration in your name it goes a long way to being legal in France. Only a legal test case would prove otherwise. [/quote]

The caravan had the old UK vehicle registration on it and that vehicle was later imported and registered in France, so there was no link back to UK as they did not have a UK address!

So do you think that they could have towed it legally without any reg. number on the back of it?

Still, thats what they believed and we got a great deal on a super caravan![:D]

Chipie

[Logan]

No the number on the back must be registered to them in UK at their UK address and have separate caravan insurance with that number on the green card and the other documents I mentioned. I believe you then comply with the law in France until it's tested in a court. Of course if you become a resident in France then the rules of registering vehicles to French matriculation still apply.

[Jacqui Too]

[quote user="Logan"]No the number on the back must be registered to them in UK at their UK address and have separate caravan insurance with that number on the green card and the other documents I mentioned. I believe you then comply with the law in France until it's tested in a court. Of course if you become a resident in France then the rules of registering vehicles to French matriculation still apply.[/quote]

Right, you will have to perservere with me a little longer[Www]

So if my friends had had an address in the UK along with another UK reg. car plus seperate insurance they appear to be legal when towing it with their French registered car, I can understand that.

But that was not the case in this instance, so they /we concluded that it would be ilegal to tow it with their car! were we right or wrong?[blink]

Chipie

[Logan]

In this instance you and your friends were/are correct.

SD. My assurance agent has replied. You were correct, he was wrong although no apology was forthcoming. Thanks.

[Sunday Driver]

Blimey, I go away for a couple of hours and look what happens?

In the UK, caravans do not require to be registered (they may be towed under the UK towcar's registration number) so they don't have a V5C registration document and a number plate of their own.

In France, with a couple of exceptions, all caravans have a PTAC in excess of 500kg so they need their own carte grise and their own registration number.

A visitor to France driving a UK registered car may tow their UK caravan under their car's plate because they comply with their "home" (ie,UK) regulations.

A French resident (who may only drive a French registered car here) must comply with French regulations regarding registration of trailers.  That means they may not tow an unregistered UK caravan which has no carte grise/V5C of its own.

Relying on the V5C and registration number of someone's UK tow car makes no difference because that registration has nothing to do with the caravan - which is a road vehicle in its own right. A CRIS registration is also irrelevant because it has no legal validity at all.

 

SD. My assurance agent has replied. You were correct, he was wrong

[;-)]

 

[Logan]

SD wrote.

Relying on the V5C and registration number of someone's UK tow car makes no difference because that registration has nothing to do with the caravan - which is a road vehicle in its own right. A CRIS registration is also irrelevant because it has no legal validity at all.

Struth!! I have only suggested this as a compromise to the real difficulties of registering a UK caravan in France. I realise it aint perfect but it goes as far as possible to make it legal. I have not suggested you use "someone’s UK tow car number". I have made it clear, I hope that the number must be registered to the caravan owner; he must have a UK address and proof of such and insurance to match. I can only repeat that this system is in common usage among EU haulage contractors. Tractor units registered in one EU country, towing trailers registered somewhere else. Sometimes in the real world practical elastic is used to interpret the law. It's too easy to say here is the letter of the law and you cannot do anything else. That's why Law has been open to interpretation through the ages.

I doubt your average French Gendarme has a clue to the exactness of this particular law. Produce papers and they are happy enough.

 

[Sunday Driver]

Sorry, Logan, but in the real world, the law is the law and there is no elasticity.  Never has been.

Your compromise was offered in good spirit, but it doesn't make it legal, so by definition, it's illegal.  The system that you describe is not in common usage with EU haulage contractors - as you go on to say, they use properly registered trailers.

I understand where you're coming from in terms of the potential difficulty of importing a UK caravan, but if the legal requirements can't be met, then the van can't be brought over here.  That's the real world, I'm afraid.

Finally, if any French gendarme (average or otherwise) stops a French vehicle towing a caravan, he will ask to see the carte grise of the van.  If it's an unregistered UK van, and you produce a V5C for a Ford Mondeo......

That's their job - and they're not stupid.[;-)]

 

[aj_dr]

Sunday Driver,

I noticed that you said that any trailer with a gross weight of over 500kg has to be registered. Our trailer has a max. laden weight of 750kg.....does it have to have its own Carte Gris??

aj

[Sunday Driver]

If your trailer has a PTAC of 750kg, then it is over 500kg and therefore needs its own carte grise.

PTAC (poids totale authorisee en charge) is the weight of the trailer itself plus its allowed payload - in other words, gross weight/maximum laden weight.

 

[Logan]

Actually SD the trailers used by EU hauliers are just that, trailers with the registration number of the tractor unit. This applies particulary to UK and Dutch articulated vehicles. Often the trailer units are left in other EU countries and collected by a different tractor unit. It is common practice. Probably the old Nelsonian blind eye is applied by most. I accept your base definitions of legal and illegal, black and white. It's the foundation of our social and political systems. However in the real world sometimes 'needs must when the devil drives'. I still believe the DLVA form V5 in your own name goes a long way to prove registration in UK for a  caravan.

[Jc]

Artic trailers(semi-trailers)come under different legislation to stand-alone trailers. 

[Sunday Driver]

If you re-read Art 322-1 that I quoted earlier, it includes semi trailers.  There are no separate regulations regarding registration.

UK semi trailers are the same as caravans.  They do not require separate registration and can be operated under the registration number of the tractor unit. If the trailers are left in another EU country then they can only be collected by another UK registered tractor unit.  Those arrangements comply with the legislation of their country of registration and there's no argument about that, so there's no need for any blind eye to be involved. 

Logan

I'm not having a go at you for the sake of argument.  I just wouldn't want you or anyone else reading this to rely on a V5C for a UK tow car doing anything at all to prove registration of a caravan in order for it to be towed by a French car.

 

[Logan]

UK semi trailers are the same as caravans.  They do not require separate registration and can be operated under the registration number of the tractor unit. If the trailers are left in another EU country then they can only be collected by another UK registered tractor unit.  Those arrangements comply with the legislation of their country of registration and there's no argument about that, so there's no need for any blind eye to be involved. 

Yes but they are often collected and used by tractor units of another EU country with a different EU country registration. That was my point. You see this senario all the time on the road. I have seen French tractors units towing UK trailers and vice-versa. A common sight is a Dutch tractor units with UK trailer. They do not bother to change the number plates. Another sight is trailer units displaying 3 different EU registrations!! How is the law related to that? I believe the law is actually applied on the ground with a great degree of flexibility for the sake of commerce between EU nations. Also Gendarmes hate the paper work involved.

[aj_dr]

Thanks SD. Looks as if we will have to get it registered.

aj

[margie]

I have been informed that to tow an English caravan behind a French registered car that the caravan has to comply with the French immatriculation laws and that the caravan door must not be on the road side of the caravan, which at once would surely mean that most UK caravans would not comply?

[Sunday Driver]

The regulation concerning the positioning of the side access door does not apply to caravans - only to motorcaravans.

 

[P]

You will find that the door issue is an old wives tale.

[sid]

I'm currently going through the registration process for a Lunar Clubman caravan of 1989 vintage. I can assure you that everything  SD has told you is correct.

There's enough red tape to put you off, particularly if you don't like speaking French on the telephone, but you just have to make a list of the jobs and work your way through them. I've found that the people at the DRIRE and Bureau Veritas are very helpful.

The issue of the positioning of the door is, in fact, a non-issue! It doesn't matter.

With a more modern 'van, with a manufacturer's certificate of conformity, it should be relatively straightforward.

As to the question of weight; there are not many caravans (in fact, none that I can think of!) with a PTAC (max loaded weight) of less than 750kgs, so insurance and registration will be essential.

Sid