No UK licence no UK insurance

[PaulT]

A friend has just sold a kit car (Royale Sabre and very nice they are too) to a French surgeon who lives in the UK.

This chap approached a number of insureres but they refused him insurance because he does not have a UK driving licence.

He eventually got insured - for £2,000 [:-))]

Have never read of anyone being refused insurance when living in France with a UK licence - you will no doubt inform me if this is not the case.

Paul

[AnOther]

I think it's quite common for non UK citizens with a non UK licence to be unable to obtain insurance through normal channels and specialist cover will almost inevitably come at a premium (no pun intended!).

One reason might be that with a foreign licence insurers have no way of verifying a persons history and therefore gauge the level of risk. If you think of it a French licence does not show the holders points so in fact the holder could have lost them all and been disqualified from driving in France yet as far as the UK insurers are concerned it would still appear valid.

Changing to a UK licence might help a little but even then one of the usual questions insurers ask is how long have you held a UK licence and if it's under a year (I think) they will be treated as a new driver, with all that implies in terms of risk and premium.

[bubbles]

Well, that's crazy.

We got insurance in France when we only had a UK licence and there was no extra charge (well, I don't think there was - it wasn't mentioned)

We were asked for no claims bonus entitlement and it seemed to be accepted.

Surely then it should work the other way round - in England on a French permis de conduire.

[AnOther]

[quote user="bubbles"]Well, that's crazy.

We got insurance in France when we only had a UK licence and there was no extra charge (well, I don't think there was - it wasn't mentioned)

We were asked for no claims bonus entitlement and it seemed to be accepted.

Surely then it should work the other way round - in England on a French permis de conduire.[/quote]Why 'surely', other than in a Utopian fully integrated EU - which is decades if not generations away, there is no foundation whatsoever for that assumption. You might as well ask why, when the NHS is based purely on residency and is free at the point of delivery, it's not the same in France - or Spain, or Italy, or Latvia, or Norway, or any other EU country ?

[bubbles]

OK - point taken.

Just thought that the French seem to be more bureaucratic generally and I would have thought that it would be more tricky to have your "foreign" credentials and history accepted in France than in England.

[Will]

Surely it is up to insurers whether or not they choose to accept any particular risk? In this case it was a very unusual vehicle, which is likely to prove difficult to insure in the mainstream market even for a driver with considerable experience in Britain. Somebody with, apparently, little experience of driving on the left, in an obscure vehicle that is likely to prove difficult to repair is not likely to find it easy to get insurance outside the specialist market.

I suspect somebody with an English licence and a rare or obscure French car would not find insurance easy to obtain cheaply with the mainstream companies in France either.

[Bob T]

Insurance companies are businesses and can stipulate whatever conditions that they want. 

[tinabee]

should have looked here:

http://www.adrianflux.co.uk/kit-car-insurance/royale-sabre/

maybe it's not too late to change

 

[AnOther]

Bet they still want to see a UK licence [;-)]

[Will]

Just to answer the point, I know of people who are returning to England, having changed to French driving licences when in France, who have had no difficulty obtaining quotes for British insurance.

One, with a perfectly normal everyday vehicle, recently sought a quote on one of the comparison sites. One of the questions asked was do you hold a driving licence from: a. UK; b. another European country; or c. elsewhere. Having checked the 'b' option, plenty of quotes for comprehensive insurance came up, the best being about £200. And that, even after you factor in the cost of breakdown insurance from Green Flag, is significantly less than this person was paying for equivalent insurance in France.

So no, not holding a UK driving licence does not mean that you cannot get UK insurance.

[PaulT]

[quote user="Will"]Surely it is up to insurers whether or not they choose to accept any particular risk? In this case it was a very unusual vehicle, which is likely to prove difficult to insure in the mainstream market even for a driver with considerable experience in Britain. Somebody with, apparently, little experience of driving on the left, in an obscure vehicle that is likely to prove difficult to repair is not likely to find it easy to get insurance outside the specialist market.

I suspect somebody with an English licence and a rare or obscure French car would not find insurance easy to obtain cheaply with the mainstream companies in France either.

[/quote]

No, it was some of the specialist insurers that declined. And it was not a case of limited experience of driving on the left - he lives and works in the UK, It is also a case with the car of normally being easy to insure. In fact, I used to have one and had no problem for obtaining insurance including business use.

Paul

[AnOther]

I think it may be the combination of non UK citizen and foreign licence which is the root of the problem

[Will]

See my post above. Holding a licence from France is not, by itself, a bar to obtaining insurance in Britain.

But insurers are not compelled to take on any risk.

[andyh4]

Insurance companies are a law unto themselves and operate under rules that we are not party to nor that will necessarily be understood by anyone who does not understand the risk assessments done by their actuaries.

 

As an example (but not vehicle related) I applied for life assurance and because I was then particating in some rock scrambling, I asked for clarification of their dangerous sports clause.

 

The response was that provided that I did not use a rope then I was covered.[8-)]

So if I would normally use a rope as a safety devise and fall and die I am not covered.  But if I (knowing the policy rules) decide to take a risk and not use the recommended sfety devise (the rope) and fall and die, I am covered.

 

So go figure.

[Salty Sam]

Interesting chat with an English registered car owner while awaiting to board the ferry for the crossing to France. The owner apparently now a resident of France, had purchased French car insurance but had not yet re-registered his car.

7 days previously while travelling down to Portsmouth, he got pulled by the Police in a ANPR check which indicated his UK registered car showed up as not having valid insurance. Subsequently, his car was seized, he received a fine, needed to find alternative insurance and pay to recover his car before being able to return to France.

An expensive lesson for those who think it is OK to retain their UK car registration perhaps ? 

[woolybanana]

This borders on discrimination against foreigners I suspect and should result in some nice fines someday

[Will]

Salty Sam's ferry acquaintance's experience is quite a different situation. French insurance is not valid on a UK-registered vehicle because none of the French insurers pay into the Motor Insurers' Bureau. Except, arguably, a French-insured vehicle carrying UK plates may be OK for the one month period when the car is actually undergoing immatriculation in France, when the UK index number in effect acts as a temporary French number - but then the vehicle is, strictly speaking, no longer UK registered (try explaining that to Mr Plod). That is similar to a case featured on one of the police chase TV programmes recently.

We were talking here about driving licences rather than vehicle registration.

I understand Woolly's point about discrimination, but the registration and insurance (and driving licence) rules came from Brussels, and apply in all member states, so I don't think he would get far in the Euro Courts of Human Rights.

[pachapapa]

[quote user="Salty Sam"]

Interesting chat with an English registered car owner while awaiting to board the ferry for the crossing to France. The owner apparently now a resident of France, had purchased French car insurance but had not yet re-registered his car.

7 days previously while travelling down to Portsmouth, he got pulled by the Police in a ANPR check which indicated his UK registered car showed up as not having valid insurance. Subsequently, his car was seized, he received a fine, needed to find alternative insurance and pay to recover his car before being able to return to France.

An expensive lesson for those who think it is OK to retain their UK car registration perhaps ? 

[/quote]

Whay is an ANPR check and do they also have them in france?

[Russethouse]

 Automatic Number Plate recognition - its a gizmo that quickly checks the data base, you usually see the camera and then the police a few hundred yards away ready to pounce on 'problem' cars

[PaulT]

ANPR - some patrol cars are also equipped with this - as they are driving it is monitoring number plates of cars and checking with the various databases. If something seems wrong it flashes up on the screen.

Paul

[pachapapa]

Thanks for the heads up guys..in 2-cherves one gets out of touch.[:)]

Google check shows that widely used in france and even the Marrakech-Agadir Autoroute will have it.

http://www.google.fr/search?hl=fr&rls=com.microsoft%3Afr%3AIE-Address&q=Reconnaissance+Automatique+de+Plaque&btnG=Rechercher&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

[AnOther]

[quote user="Salty Sam"]Subsequently, his car was seized, he received a fine, needed to find alternative insurance and pay to recover his car before being able to return to France.[/quote]Not to mention 6 points on his licence which will still be applied by DVLA to his UK record even if he had exchanged his UK licence for a French one [;-)]