Please help.......insurance quandry

[Ron Avery]

Nick

I think its fair to say from recent observations at Dover and on the approaching roads, the number of Polish registered lorries has increased considerably in recent times, but may be that quote should read "have involved Polish drivers" rather than caused by.

Seems to me not much of a change as foreign drivers who cause serious accidents have been dealt with through the UK courts for many years, being Polish or Romanian does not exempt these drivers from being prosecuted for dangerous driving etc and being jailed.  Those who watch SE News will also know of the many VOSA checks on lorries around Dover and other places which result in some of them being stopped from proceeding due to mechanical defects.  All these measures seem to do is add the ability to now fine the foreign owners.

[opas]

The last few post on here would not affect Outie, seeing that he goes to UK and drives for a UK company, he would expect that if he commited an ofence he would be treated accordingly.

[Sunday Driver]

I'm not so sure.

Under the Road Safety Act 2006, he'd be classed as a foreign driver.  If he was unable to provide a satisfactory UK address where a 'summons' could be served, then he would be liable to an on the spot fine just like the rest of them.  The fact that he drives for a UK company would be immaterial - he would have committed the offence, not the company he works for.

 

[opas]

Fair comment SD.

[Wendy]

Opas, Mr O has one hell of a compo claim to make - wrongful arrest and unlawful detainment for a start! it dosen't matter whether you live in France, or the UK, or anywhere in Europe, a valid European issued insurance policy is all he needs. So long as it has been issued in Europe it is valid throughout Europe including the UK. Just the same as his drivers license is valid throughout Europe.

And why were they looking for a green card ? - he can work anywhere in Europe, the green card was declared a 'barrier to free movement' ages back! This has all been a major breach of European law and you should go for as much as you can get. Those police should know the law before they lock people up.

 

[AnOther]

Hmmm, all very nice in theory but I wouldn't be hurrying to plan the celebration party just yet [blink]

4 years ago a very close friend in UK was viciously attacked in the street as a result of which he lost not only an eye but his business to, needless to say he's still waiting for compensation from the Criminal Imjuries Compensation Board who seem to delight in throwing up obstacles at every single step.

Not the same scenario I agree but there are parallels which illustrate that when it comes to getting a compensation payment out of the UK government you are more likely to give up or die of old age before the cheque lands on the mat.

[JMB]

This is pretty interesting. I have bought a car in the uk, it's tax exempt (it's got it's a current disc) with a new mot but it will have french insurance. I am going to bring it to France in September it will show up as uninsured on these camera thingies they have all over the place. Do you think I will get a tug and end up in clink for a couple of days?

 

[AnOther]

Don't know about clink but I think you will run a significant risk of getting pulled and what transpires from there on could range from nothing to siezure, depending on which side of bed the plod who pulls you got out on and which way the wind is blowing [:'(]

Your best bet is to take out day insurance from one of the several companies who offer it online, you're then bombproof.

Just Google 'Day Car Insurance', you fill in a form and pay and they email you a certificate, easy peasy and for the sake of a few quid it's a no brainer.

 

[Phil & Pat]

Just try not to have an accident while your car is insured by two companies - could get complicated!

[Owens88]

[quote user="Nick Trollope"]Small aside;

John's link to fleetnews says that 17% of crashes in the UK are caused by Poles...

Does this mean that the number of Polish drivers in the UK has reached such a level that this statistic is true (work it out!)?

Or does this (once again) prove that there are "lies, damn lies and statistics"?


[/quote]

 

Sounds a bit Clarkson esk. 'There are too many poles in the ground, we keep running in to them'.

[JMB]

[quote user="ErnieY"]

Don't know about clink but I think you will run a significant risk of getting pulled and what transpires from there on could range from nothing to siezure, depending on which side of bed the plod who pulls you got out on and which way the wind is blowing [:'(]

Your best bet is to take out day insurance from one of the several companies who offer it online, you're then bombproof.

Just Google 'Day Car Insurance', you fill in a form and pay and they email you a certificate, easy peasy and for the sake of a few quid it's a no brainer.

 

[/quote]

Well Ernie I tried three day insurance providers. One won't insure cars reg before 1993, one requires uk residency and the other couldn't come up with a quote for a 1971 MGB. So it looks like I will have to go armed with the details of my pet solicior.

[AnOther]

UK residency can be a problem unfortunately but it seems daft and petty to limit cover to post 93 vehicles, why ?

I day insured my MG whilst still living in UK in order to move it from my own house to my daughters, I'll see if I can dig out the details.

EDIT: Just had a good rummage but can't find the info.

Your next option then is to send the export slip from the V5 to the DVLA stating the date on which you will actually be driving the car to the ferry you can then legitimately drive it on your French insurance, which is in fact the proper way to do it anyway. Keep a copy of the slip just in case though because if the time between sending it and departure is short and the details haven't made it onto the DVLA database you could have problems if stopped.

Bon voyage [:D]

[gosub]

"Opas, Mr O has one hell of a compo claim to make - wrongful arrest and unlawful detainment for a start! it dosen't matter whether you live in France, or the UK, or anywhere in Europe, a valid European issued insurance policy is all he needs. So long as it has been issued in Europe it is valid throughout Europe including the UK. Just the same as his drivers license is valid throughout Europe.

And why were they looking for a green card ? - he can work anywhere in Europe, the green card was declared a 'barrier to free movement' ages back! This has all been a major breach of European law and you should go for as much as you can get. Those police should know the law before they lock people up."

And if it's as easy as they say on the quote here, why did the problem arise in the first place? MIB

"The Motor Insurance Database (MID) was set up by the insurance industry to

help combat this crime, and the police are now the MID's biggest

customer, making over 3.8 million enquiries per month.  The

DVLA, with over 1 million enquiry transactions a month in support of

their Electronic Vehicle Licensing operation, is the second largest

user of the MID.  The MID

also helps the UK comply with the 4th EU Motor Insurance Directive, which requires that insurance details of

all vehicles in member states can be easily accessed by a national

information centre.  In the UK, this role is carried out by the

MIB via the UK Information Centre."

[gosub]

[quote user="ErnieY"]

UK residency can be a problem unfortunately but it seems daft and petty to limit cover to post 93 vehicles, why ?

I day insured my MG whilst still living in UK in order to move it from my own house to my daughters, I'll see if I can dig out the details.

EDIT: Just had a good rummage but can't find the info.

Your next option then is to send the export slip from the V5 to the DVLA stating the date on which you will actually be driving the car to the ferry you can then legitimately drive it on your French insurance, which is in fact the proper way to do it anyway. Keep a copy of the slip just in case though because if the time between sending it and departure is short and the details haven't made it onto the DVLA database you could have problems if stopped.

Bon voyage [:D]

[/quote]

Here is some more info from the MIB.

UK Vehicles being exported

 

There is an

exemption from the general position following the implementation of the 5^th

Motor Insurance Directive into UK Law.

 

If a UK vehicle is being exported to another EEA

state (the EEA comprises EU countries plus Iceland,

Norway and Liechtenstein),

an insurer in that state can give cover on the vehicle for 30 days, to allow it

to be taken to that state and re-registered there.

 

The risk is assumed by the insurer in the

member state of destination of the vehicle being imported, who will ultimately

be responsible for compensation in respect of any accidents occurring during

the 30 day period".

  

[gosub]

Info from the same link.

"UK Registered Vehicle

– Foreign Insurance

General Position

• The insurance may have been obtained and provided in good faith but it does not comply with Section 145 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 unless the insurer complies with the following criteria:

- Cover on a UK vehicle should only be given by an authorised insurer who is approved under the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 and who is a member of MIB - Section 145(5) of the Road Traffic Act refers.

- If the insurance company is not a member of MIB the third party liability insurance does not comply with the law here.

"

[AnOther]

I'm not about to re-read the entire thread but revisiting the original post it seems fairly clear that the misunderstanding was to do with whether he was a bona fide visitor to UK and entitled to have French insurance or a UK resident and not. The fact that the incident occured on a Saturday unfortunately prolonged the resolution.

[The Riff-Raff Element]

Out of interest, who gets the money from the car pound? HMG? The police? The local authority? Or is it some private setup?

In a novel, of course, it would be secretly owned by a shadowy consortium of senior police offices who would bung a pony to any uniformed plod who could haul in a baffled foreign motorist unsure of their rights in the matter and lock their car up for a week while the slow wheels of justice turned on. "Mr Big" would, naturally, be a High Court Judge.

But what happens to the cash in the real world?

Forcing someone to pay up for impounding their car when it is subsequently found that they have no case to answer is just outragous.

[gosub]

 "Well Ernie I tried three day insurance providers. One won't insure cars reg before 1993, one requires uk residency and the other couldn't come up with a quote for a 1971 MGB. So it looks like I will have to go armed with the details of my pet solicior."

Have a look at my post "UK Vehicles being exported", it should solve your problem.

[opas]

[quote user="The Riff-Raff Element"]Out of interest, who gets the money from the car pound? HMG? The police? The local authority? Or is it some private setup?

In a novel, of course, it would be secretly owned by a shadowy consortium of senior police offices who would bung a pony to any uniformed plod who could haul in a baffled foreign motorist unsure of their rights in the matter and lock their car up for a week while the slow wheels of justice turned on. "Mr Big" would, naturally, be a High Court Judge.

But what happens to the cash in the real world?

Forcing someone to pay up for impounding their car when it is subsequently found that they have no case to answer is just outragous.

[/quote]

You and I must have gone to the same school of thought!

[Wendy]

[quote user="gosub"]

"Opas, Mr O has one hell of a compo claim to make - wrongful arrest and unlawful detainment for a start! it dosen't matter whether you live in France, or the UK, or anywhere in Europe, a valid European issued insurance policy is all he needs. So long as it has been issued in Europe it is valid throughout Europe including the UK. Just the same as his drivers license is valid throughout Europe.

And why were they looking for a green card ? - he can work anywhere in Europe, the green card was declared a 'barrier to free movement' ages back! This has all been a major breach of European law and you should go for as much as you can get. Those police should know the law before they lock people up."

And if it's as easy as they say on the quote here, why did the problem arise in the first place? MIB

"The Motor Insurance Database (MID) was set up by the insurance industry to help combat this crime, and the police are now the MID's biggest customer, making over 3.8 million enquiries per month.  The DVLA, with over 1 million enquiry transactions a month in support of their Electronic Vehicle Licensing operation, is the second largest user of the MID.  The MID also helps the UK comply with the 4th EU Motor Insurance Directive, which requires that insurance details of all vehicles in member states can be easily accessed by a national information centre.  In the UK, this role is carried out by the MIB via the UK Information Centre."
[/quote]

The problem arose because the police did not accept Mr O's perfectly legal documents at the off.

They should have done. If they were unsure they should have checked up before they started arresting and locking him up for the night and impounding his car. It is not up to European citizens to explain the law to police - it is up to the police to know the laws, and EU laws at that. Mr O was acting in a lawful manner, not breaking any laws and yet he was unlawfully arrested and detained.

He was not unregistered, not uninsured. He was not required to be a UK resident if he was already living in an EU country - France.

[woolybananasbrother]

What in the name of sweet Frith makes you think that those goons can read or write? Much better at beating up youngsters or OAP's.

[Boiling a frog]

Or perhaps the OP speak with forked tongue .White man never tell truth[;-)]

[AnOther]

Not making any suggestions of malfeasance but it might be wise to recollect and remember that everything we've heard about his affair has been exclusively from one (aggrieved) side, and 2nd hand to boot [;-)]

[The Riff-Raff Element]

"The problem arose because the police did not accept Mr O's perfectly legal documents at the off.

They should have done. If they were unsure they should have checked

up before they started arresting and locking him up for the night and

impounding his car. It is not up to European citizens to explain the

law to police - it is up to the police to know the laws, and EU laws at

that. Mr O was acting in a lawful manner, not breaking any laws and yet

he was unlawfully arrested and detained.

He was not unregistered, not uninsured. He was not required to be a

UK resident if he was already living in an EU country - France."

Yeah - but they probably assumed that he was a foreign Jonnie and therefore fair game for abuse. It seems to be a perk for law enforcement officers the world over, that. Must have surprised them when he turned out to be a native. But then they couldn't really back down.

I get no end of abuse when driving on French plates in the UK - particularly at the tolls on the Dartford crossing when I dismount to pay the fee for driving over a bridge that my taxes helped build some years ago.

Of course, that might just be me and my silly haircut. On the otherhand I am on the dusky side . I'd better watch my step.

[mint]

Yes, Riff-Raff, Stop & Search for you next![:P]

Hope your name on your "papers" is not Riff-Raff, or nothing on earth will save you from harrassment.[:D]