Warning - New houses/villas

[chessie]

Words of advice for anyone thinking of building/buying new build - DONT.

We live in a new 'villa' (glorified bog-standard b---y bungalow). I

didn't want a new build - other half said he wasn't doing any more DIY,

wouldn't think of buying anything older than 3 years - and I wanted a

lovely old restored stone. We live in a modern box - it's big - but a

box. Lots of windows - but a box.

Sound insulation - in French new build - Doesn't Exist. The walls are

thin plaster; the floors are concrete - with tiles. The floors are hard

and unforgiving if you fall down (I know - too much 'falling down

water' does have that effect !). Drop something and it breaks - and

it's always the nicest glass (yeah the 'falling down water holder' ) -

or the special bit of china.

Everything echoes - drop something - a knife or a fork - on the floor

in the kitchen and it reverberates right round the box. Stand in the

kitchen and listen to every 'splish splash' at toilet time in the

bathroom at the other end of the box - might just as well be in the

next room.

Any guests staying over - you can hear every, every single word or whisper - there ain't nothing that's private.

The guest toilet is just right off the hall - again every single sound

echoes around the fully tiled spare bathroom - and then right round the

box. Privacy - forget it.

Even with carpets (not fitted just large room size squares) and

curtains - it's still an echo box. If I was clever I'd sew my own

version of the Bayeaux Tapestry - showing the mass invasion of the

Brits !!

The windows all open inwards - why? You can't have a nice windowshelf

to hold pictures, or vases, or anything. You need to leave at least 2

feet (sorry don't do metric - give me good old British Imperial -

understandable human sized measurements) either side of the window

opening otherwise when the windows are open and you get a nice breeze -

which then blows the windows back so they will hit the inside of the

walls. Why can't we have windows that open outwards.

Do not have a modern granite-type sink. For some reason the French

water system turns everything brown and stains the sink. It never, ever

looks clean - ugggh. I think this is why French loos are so horrible as

well. They seem to get stained very quickly so I'm using those bleach

blocks every few days just so we can keep the toilets looking clean.

Get gas central heating if possible. Wood burning stoves - yeah sure -

all very romantic; except that every time you open the door to put more

wood on the fire - there'll be large puffs of smoke out of the stove

which marks  the ceiling - and needs to be painted  every

couple  of years.

[Lizzie15]

Whether you have a new house or an old one the windows will open inwards!!!They don't need to flap around and hit the walls cos you can put those special catches onto them-they work very well!![:)]

 

[P]

Sounds like you should not have gone to France and, based on your initial comments this sounds as though it is also a dig at your OH - perhaps that part of your life is also wrong.

There is also the case of specifying what you reqire in a new build. Don't rely on a builder showing you a picture and you saying 'I'll have one of those'. You need to look at what he is building, the materials etc that he is using (you can be sure that he will be trying to build as cheaply as possible, which is understandable) and then increase the specification to what you require, naturally with an increae in price.

I am also unsure how many new houses that are built in the UK have rubber floors. Certainly my house, built in 1978 has concrete floors that have been tiled and now have fitted carpets over the tiles. Therefore, if you wanted floor boards in a new house in the UK you would have to specify that - along with an increase in price.

Perhaps if you drunk straight out of the bottle it would save your glasses getting smashed.

[Will]

A lot of British and other foreign residents, and the vast majority of French, are perfectly happy with their recently-built pavilions. Sorry you don't like yours.

I think all of your perceived disadvantages apply equally to our own house, which is somewhere between 200-300 years old and renovated/converted about 25 years ago (started by a Corsican, continued by a Frenchman, we are the first British owners). The difference is that we don't see them as problems, and I don't think we could possibly be diagnosed with suffering from the rose-tinted specs British-in-France syndrome. The only difference is that there is a very thick stone wall between our bit and the guest rooms so we don't hear each other. We're very happy with our woodburner and oil heating, no way would I have gas in France unless lucky enough to be in an area with town gas.

[Ron Avery]

" every time you open the door to put more wood on the fire - there'll be large puffs of smoke out of the stove which marks  the ceiling " 

 Try burning dry wood, its only wet wood that makes a lot of smoke, also try opening the door slowly so you don't suck air out of the fire.

[Val_2]

Perhaps you should move if you are not happy with your house,after all you must have had some say in the construction,decor and general finish! Of course windows open inwards,this is France and very practical too for cleaning. Think yourself lucky you can afford to build new and don't have the worry of continual maintenance on an older property. In general,french buildings are pretty well constructed and insulated, maybe you opted for something too cheap - you gets what you pays for!

[chessie]

Thanks for comments -

 Lizzie - I've looked for catches to hold windows - I'd be very

interested for more details because I haven't yet found anything that

will work - we've got the white-pvc-doubled glazed units. I didn't

think you were supposed to drill holes in these units to fix anything

to 'em - am I wrong. If there is anything that will hold the windows on

some kind of fastening I'd love to have more details.

As for 'specifying to builder' - yes this is exactly what I am warning

people about. This 'box' had already been built and was just over 2

years old. We had no idea that - because the partition walls are so

thin there's no privacy and that it would act like an echo chamber. I'm

just trying to warn anyone lucky enough to be in the position to 'talk

to their architect/builder' what to look out for. And to those who

might be contemplating buying an already existing new build that this

is a problem they are likely to encounter. And yeah - after X number of

years married to OH - that probably might be part of the problem

!!!!!!!!!!

Ron - thanks - but our wood IS dry. Obtained from local commune

woodcutter - left to dry through the summer - I must admit I hadn't

thought of just 'sneaking up' on the woodstove and taking it by

surprise - I'll try that.

Concrete floors - oh come on - most houses - houses mind you - in the

UK - the majority do have wooden floors on the ground floor and wooden

floors on the second floor. The newer houses will have concrete ground

floors but upstairs they are wood. I find all one-level concrete with

tiles over to be hard, noisy, cold in winter and very tiring on the

feet and ankles if you do a lot of walking around,. There's no give in

the concrete at all.

As for drinking out of the bottle - well yes, it would help stop me

from breaking the odd glass - but the problem is a full botle is always

heavy and I'd be more likely to drop a full bottle than a glass - and

then by the time I've drunk half the botle there's no way I'd be able

to hold the botle properly. So besides breaking the bottle on the floor

I'd have to cope with half the wine being spilt on the sofa, me, the

cats, the carpet....what a waste of good 'falling down

water'..........I think plastic cups might be the answer.

Cheers...hic. hic, hic, hic,

[chessie]

Thanks Val - my point is that the new build was already built. We had

NO say in it's construction, decor etc, etc, - and no it darned well

wasn't cheap !!! I'm just trying to warn others who might be thinking

of new build to be aware of the problems - of course if you're in

charge right from the word go - and you're aware of the potential

problems - fine - it can be sorted. But if you buy an existing new

build - these are problems we've encountered.

[Jc]

We have an apartment and we cannot hear anyone either side or below(top floor) unless they are using something like a hammer drill-certainly no voices or music!

[Teamedup]

We had ours built, rather than buying something that was a key in hand sort of thing and we carefully chose our builder.

It is well insulated and doesn't echo. The internal walls are plaster board but seem to be good enough to hold my kitchen wall units full of stuff.

I know someone who complains bitterly in England about her granit sink staining, it will always depend on where one lives with regards to this. Water can make some stuff look terrible.

All windows open internally and I don't mind and never did, less room for stuff to gather dust and less dusting, so for me very very good. And my windows are always clean as I can reach them all easily. Also how could you have the obligitory shutters if your windows opened outwards.

 

Re the chiminee. Yes, ours used to do that and my husband had to add an external lever for the clapet so that we could open it before opening the door. Nothing to do with damp wood. We hadn't noticed that the clapet lever was inside the fire and  we could only adjust it  when the fire door was open and ofcourse if the clapet is left closed there will be smoke.

Sounds like you bought from a crap builder. Modern homes can be even better than ours and I was pleased with ours. AND our builder put fitted carpets in the bedrooms although they have gone since.

Re tiles. I hate those false wood floors that people have these days, didn't realise I hated them until we put it down in a spare room. I don't mind proper wooden floors, but find that they do echo. I hate carpet, must be filthy all the time and just the idea revolts me completely. I love tiles, I find them beautiful and clean and can't actually think of anything better for a family with a dog.

 

 

 

[andyh4]

"Ron - thanks - but our wood IS dry. Obtained from local commune woodcutter - left to dry through the summer "

 

Sorry Chessie your wood is most certainly not dry if it has only been left through the summer.  Dry wood is minimum 2 and possibly 4 years in the drying to get rid of the sap moisture which is deep in the wood.

[Quillan]

I think the original poster is just experiencing bad luck in as much as the house was probably built on the cheap in the first place. We have loads of people come and stay with us in the 'off months' that are looking to buy a property or are looking for land on which to build. The wait for new houses by the reputable builders round here is around two years or more. Some of our guests say they can get it built quicker like the builder can start tomorrow, ok not quite but at least within six months. I usually say, if asked, “how comes the builder can start so quick when others have such long waiting lists.”

Prices of new builds vary so much and my question is always why. The normal reason is because the cheaper ones have thin stud partitions and have the minimum insulation. They also lack other features as well, like in one case shutters. People also start off with grand designs with towers and god knows what else. Building is cheaper than the UK but not that much cheaper, it's the cost of land that makes the difference. Hence the ones with grand designs normally end up with a square house from a plan book just like everyone else.

So as somebody else has said you get what you pay for and I would suggest that the person who had the house built worked to a limited budget.

As for the other things mentioned, well windows are covered as are tiled floors, as somebody else said, it's France and that’s how it is. Heating, well if you want you an always have central heating installed using either liquid gas or oil if no connection to mains gas is available. Wood fires are always a problem with ash dust and smoke, that’s why we decorate in the spring. As for sinks, well as the original poster did not get a renovated house because her husband had had enough then the least he could do is buy her a dish washer which will save on sink usage.

Finally if you really don't like the house put it on the market and look for another that you will really like. Our house was built in 86 and was built by one of the good builders round here. All we had to do was decorate really but as it’s a B&B we did some major works to put en-suites on all the bedrooms.

 

[Russethouse]

We chose tiles downstairs here in the UK, as TU says so much easier to clean, (yes, they are harder to fall on, thats how I broke my collar bone, but what else would have been 'softer' in a kitchen ?) I'm going to put a wood floor in the sitting room too even though being a 1930s house it has 'proper' floorboards. The trouble is the boards are now a little gappy and draughty.

I think a lot of people have found that hard floors in flats and the upstairs of houses are noisy so we are having carpet again upstairs.

I have windows that open inwards too, but that was not my choice and I will be changing that but in the UK inward opening windows are far less common, we do not have the amounts of snow or shutters to worry about.

Just a interior designer note * Avacado colour bathroom suites are rumoured to be coming back !!! [:O]

[M3GS]

Surely the reason that windows generally open inwards in France, is so that they can be opened in hot weather with the shutters still closed? Different requirements altogether in UK.

We are in the midst of a new build and fortunately we are aware of the potential issues with thin or under-insulated interior walls, and have therefore  raised the spec on this.  This is a highly relevant factor of which all new build-ers should be aware.

I have to say though, that the original post did come across overall as a bit over the top to me.  Best of luck with it though!

Roger

[Lizzie15]

"Lizzie - I've looked for catches to hold windows - I'd be very interested for more details because I haven't yet found anything that will work - we've got the white-pvc-doubled glazed units. I didn't think you were supposed to drill holes in these units to fix anything to 'em - am I wrong. If there is anything that will hold the windows on some kind of fastening I'd love to have more details."

Our windows are all wooden but they do do them for PVC,I've seen them in Mr Bricolage etc. I can't remember the brand and we are in UK so I can't check it out for a while but someone else will probably know.We have them on all our windows and they make a huge difference!![I]

 

[chessie]

Hello Lizzie - thanks so much for your reply - and it's nice to know

that there could be a solution to the problem of swinging windows. I'm

a bit upset by these windows because last summer one of them blew back

quite violently during a 'heavy breeze' - and the window edge hit the

glass light fitting at the side of the mirror in the bathroom and

smashed it to pieces.. The windows have also been known to 'blow back'

when the cats are sitting on a dressing table next to the bedroom

window and has hit one of the cats before now. So it is a nuisance -

and I am very, very grateful for your practical advice. We had looked

in our nearest little DIY place - and had asked - but we hadn't found

anything that would seem to work. To know that there is definitely

something that we could track down in Mr Bricolage is useful - the only

problem is that our nearest large Mr Brico is an hour's drive away -

but we'll get there...one day...!!! Thanks for taking the trouble to

reply - that was kind of you - and I do hope you have a lovely

Christmas.

[chessie]

Hello Teamed-up - thanks for taking time to reply to my very first

post. I've been unhappy about this 'box' for a little while; I just

thought that ALL new builds were like this one - it would seem not. And

it's nice to know that someone else doesn't like her modern 'granite

looking' sink - I find it a damn nuisance because with all the specks

it just doesn't ever look nice and clean and fresh and it beats me why

anyone would choose such an item as a first choice - but on purely

practical grounds I find it horrible. Now look - you've set me off

again - I think I'll go and find another bottle of wine ...!!!

We do have a little lever on the side of our stove and there are 3

raised dots - differing sides marked on the side of the stove. I

thought these different marks - where the lever can be stopped - were

for no draught, gentle draugght, or 'roar away up the chimney and burn

the wood in 10 minutes' draught. Is it a sneaky thing to do the stove,

when it's not looking, just open the lever to the highest setting

(assuming it's not already at that setting) - and at that point put in

the extra log or two ? Hadn't thought of  'outwitting' it like

that - good thinking !!!

As for buying from a rubbishy builder - yes I do think we've been a bit

unlucky. The previous owners were only here for a short time and they

had to return to UK suddenly on health grounds. It seems they did have

a bit of a dispute with the builder while the place was being built.

And yes - they were cheapskates - we've been told by their 'friends' of

certain incidents that occured while the 'box' was being built - things

we wished we had known before we bought - but the sort of things you

only find out afterwards - when it's too late. We know the guttering is

straight - yes - straight - meaning that parts of it don't drain away

properly, and heavy rain means the gutters fill up and then we get

large amounts of water just cascading anywhere along the gutter line.

There's no gentle fall on half the guttering - it's just completely

straight. And hearing about the previous owners' falling-out with the

builder I'm slightly uneasy now about what other secret, little

time-bombs might be waiting down the line for us !!!

Of course if you have dogs you won't really want carpets. I like

carpets because I find them comfortable to lie on, the cats like to lie

on them too, and they do act as a bit of sound-proofing (which is why I

was thinking an English version of the Bayeaux Tapestry might work as a

sound-deadening wall hanging !!) But I'm not even talking fitted

carpets - just very large squares that can be dragged outside and be

washed when the sun is shining, and it's nice and warm - and yes it's

pleasant to have cool tiles underfoot. Oh for the days of summer....

Never mind - I think I'll have another glass of wine, try to forget it for now, and look forward to Christmas.

Thank you for your help Teamed-up - and I hoe you have a lovely Christmas 

PS - I want to put 'smileys' on my posts - but haven't worked out how just yet...

[chessie]

Hello Andy - I don't understand this busines about the logs and wood

for the fire. When we first arrived we were advised to order our wood

during the early part of the summer from the commune's own wood

supplier. We were told that most definitely it would be ready for

burning during the coming winter.

Now here's where I'm going to scratch my head (better not have another

glass of wine or I might not be able to type clearly enough to make

sense - even though I'm already giving myself a headache).  Now

look - how does this go? We arrive in France - we don't have any wood

packed in the removal lorry. We have to order wood (because you can be

absolutely certain the previous owners haven't left any!!). So - our

first winter - do we have to order 2 lots of wood - 1 for the coming

winter and 1 to be stored? Then in the second year do we have to order

another double lot - 1 lot to be used and 1 lot to be stored; then in

the third winter do we have to order another double lot - 1 lot to be

burned and 1 to be stored; then bingo - 4th year - we have wood from

the first lot that is now four years old that we can use. But we would

still have to buy another lot of wood so that it could be stored for

another four years; and then the year after that we would still have to

order another lot of wood to be stored for another four years. (It's

beginning to sound like laying down a wine cellar - except that it's

become a wood cellar) - and where are you going to store all this wood

? And what happens if you decide to move in the meantime !!!!

Andy - I'm baffled - where do you get wood that's at least 2 years old. I thought the local commune bod was the best person ???

Andy - I hope I've now baffled you  !!! but I do welcome your

comments and advice - tell me where we've gone wrong ? Anyway, cheers -

I think I'm now going to finish this wine - my head's aching...!!!!!

Enjoy your Christmas !!  (Still can't get the smileys to 'cling

on' to my postings - hey ho....

[andyh4]

Hi Chessie,

the easiest thing to do is to order wood that is pret à brulée - ready to burn.  This should already have been dried a minimum of 2 years.  If not available then yes, you will have to order more wood than you need for immediate requirements and let it dry - prefereably in an outhouse or shed; failing that then stacked with corrugated iron sheet on top (suitably weighted) to keep the rain off, or as an absolute last resort - under a plastic sheet.  If stacking on the open ground, then try to have a frame to keep the bottom layer of wood of the earth.  If using the last solution (plastic sheet) then remove the sheet during periods of dry weather to allow everything to breath otherwise the moisture condenses on the sheet (nowhere else to go) and drips back onto the wood.

 

[Iceni]

chessie - why do you think that the French have wood stacked all around their gardens ? We are lucky and live about 1 km from a woodyard/sawmill so can buy good, seasoned wood more or less on demand. Even so we bought 3 stere of oak, cut into 50 cm lengths, from a neighbour who had felled a tree. He uses fioul so did not need it. The wood remained stacked on neighbour's land until last weekend and it is now just beyond our compost bins.

With the grim forecasts of oil/electicity/gas price increases the price of wood will surely follow so we view our heap as an investment and over the next year will buy for the future and hope to become truly French with wood just about everywhere.

John

not

[Tresco]

(It's beginning to sound like laying down a wine cellar - except that it's become a wood cellar) - and where are you going to store all this wood ? And what happens if you decide to move in the meantime !!!! (Chessie)

I thought that was very funny Chessie, the wine cellar thing.

If you move you either take the wood with you or sell it for cash to the buyer. We've got enough for about 4 years (including old vines) but will buy more as cash flow allows, probably next Autumn.

In your distress you've raised some good points. I hope you find a way to love, or at least like your 'box'.[Z]

To do a smiley, you check the name of the one you want by scrolling the mouse over the picture, then select it by going to the list in the 'insert smiley' menu above. I don't like the new smileys; in fact they scare me, but I like person Z.

 

[Georgina]

I can understand what you say about it being like a box.  I have seen a couple of new houses inside and thought the same.  Although I liked the idea of not doing any DIY but I was led to believe that insulation was good in France.  We can hear everything in our house too but it was built in the early 60s. We will put in insulation eventually, by which time it probably won't bother us anymore.  Still it has its good points, I can tell the kids upstairs to shut up without leaving the chair !!! ha ha

Georgina