Cancelling Car Insurance.

[tasng4]

Well it's been a while since I posted but as my French gets better I am able to find out most things from French sites.  However, I have a problem and I hope someone knows the solution.

Back in July 2018 I told my car insurance agent we were replacing our car and had bought the replacement BEFORE selling the current car and could they insure the replacement.  What they did was to cancel the old car and put the new car on the policy.  This meant I wasdriving the old car WITHOUT insurance for 3 months until I dicovered the problem.

The insurance agent started a new policy for the old car, the old car has now died (cylinder head failure) and the agent is refusing to cancel the policy unless I provide a certificate of sale or destruction.  I want to keep the old car and break it for parts myseld as the replacement/new car is the same type.

Does anyone know if it's even possible to simply cancel when the car 'dies'?  The agent says that as the policy is less than 1 year old, (despite them removing the old car and replaceing it with the new one without my permission, I can not cancel until 2 months before the 1 year anniversary.

Any suggestions greatfully received.

[BritinBretagne]

The easiest thing is to sell it to a friend, cancel the insurance using the Certificate de Cessation as proof that you have sold it. What happens after that is anyone’s guess.

[EuroTrash]

Not quite as simple with ANTS though is it. You used to be able to fill in a certificat de cession, give a copy to the insurers and then bin your copy. Now you have to put the change of ownership through ANTS to get the paperwork, and then the friend is stuck with the car registered in his name, you can't "lose" cars down the gap in the change of ownership process any more.

[woolybanana]

Could you declare the car scrapped or get it scrapped and then simply keep it for spares?

[EuroTrash]

Casse autos give you a certificate of destruction, and if you tell the insurers it is scrapped they'll want a copy of this certificate for their files before they'll cancel.

A casse shouldn't give you a certificate of destruction if they're not disposing of it. These days it's all about ensuring that vehicles are disposed of in an environmetally friendly way and not left sitting around in gardens and fields leaching metal and pollution into nature. I'm sure the OP wouldn't do that, but that's why there is legislation in place to prevent it happening. The French casses that I've had the misfortune of dealing with are a whole different breed from the old scrapyards I used to love poking around in my youth, these days they're very particular about their paperwork. I suspect they must get checked regularly.

[suein56]

tasng4 wrote : Back in July 2018 I told my car insurance agent we were replacing our car and had bought the replacement BEFORE selling the current car and could they insure the replacement. What they did was to cancel the old car and put the new car on the policy. This meant I was driving the old car WITHOUT insurance for 3 months until I discovered the problem.

Whilst I cannot offer any enlightenment on to your disposal question .. other than to agree with what has been said .. I must say that your agent has acted in a most unhelpful way and I would recommend changing to another.

OH and I have both changed our cars fairly recently.

Each time our insurers have given us a cost-free month whilst we owned 2 cars each whilst purchase paperwork etc was being sorted out.

My purchase needed garage work so I extended the 'free' month by buying 2 extra months (very cheaply) until the car was drivable, then I disposed of the first car.

As ET said car disposal is highly formulated today .. everyone has to have a signed copy of the right piece of paper.

[tasng4]

We thought about doing that but since the ANTS system began this, as the next person says, would mean my friend would be stuck with it.

[tasng4]

To declare it as scrapped I need a certificate from a scrapper, one can't simply declare it as scrapped.  I wrote to the insurer saying "on my honour I declare the car to be beyond use"...they didn't accept this.

[tasng4]

I am happy to scrap the car but before I do that I want to remove some parts as the replacement car is the same basic car and I want to remove the newish parts (alternator, panels, etc.) before I hand it to a breaker for the certificate.  The problem is that here (CP 26620) it's winter and too cold to be working outside.

[tasng4]

My agent, for the last 2 years, acted in a despicable way.  This isn't the first time they've screwed us over, I've changed the other car's insurance to a very helpful English speaking company who, unfortunately, tell be there's nothing I can do.

[nomoss]

I haven't studied the current process, nor whether it has changed recently, but I believe you can still declare a vehicle as being off the road and unusable. You may still be obliged to have some basic insurance for it in place, but that should be cheaper, and you can at least keep it legally, with less expense, until you have removed the parts you need.

It is done through the new system, so there may be a delay, but at least it is free.

Details here

EDIT: This information might also be useful

[EuroTrash]

There is no SORN equivalent in France - no need because whether it's on or off the road doesn't change the legalities. In the UK, SORN means you don't have to have it taxed and insured. In France it still needs to be insured and there is no road tax in any case. So the administration isn't interested in whether it's on or off the road, they're only interested in who the current owner is up to the point when it gets scrapped (or exported).

As said above, yes the insurers will usually reduce your premium to a minimum.

According to various websites including this one, casses will take cars free as long as they are complete but if they're not complete you might have to pay. Might be worth checking with a casse what you can take off before they start regarding it as incomplete? You don't want to remove an item "just in case you need it" and then discover that that item has made the difference between scapping it for free and being charged possibly more than the value of the item you removed.

"Combien coûte la mise à la casse d'une voiture ?

La destruction d’un véhicule est gratuite, à condition que celui-ci contienne encore ses éléments essentiels :

moteur ;

radiateur ;

pot catalytique, etc.

Si votre véhicule n'est pas en état de marche :

La destruction est toujours gratuite.

En revanche, le remorquage jusqu'au démolisseur est payant. Comptez environ 50 €."

https://achat-voiture.ooreka.fr/astuce/voir/277303/mettre-sa-voiture-a-la-casse-toutes-les-regles

[EuroTrash]

What you might be thinking of, Nomoss, is that there used to be a system where if you bought a non runner, you as the buyer could declare it off the road in order to do the change of ownership without a CT. I can't remember if they gave you a carte grise that stated the car couldn't be used on the road or whether it was a different document they gave you. Then when you got it roadworthy and tested you went along with the CT to change its status and get the normal carte grise. I don't know if that's still possible under ANTS.

[nomoss]

What I was thinking of is what is in the links I posted.

[EuroTrash]

"What I was thinking of is what is in the links I posted."

LOL, quite. I somehow managed not to see the last couple of lines of your post. I didn't know you could do that.Thanks Nomoss.

[nomoss]

[quote user="EuroTrash"]"What I was thinking of is what is in the links I posted."

LOL, quite. I somehow managed not to see the last couple of lines of your post. I didn't know you could do that.Thanks Nomoss.[/quote]

[:D]

[tasng4]

Many, many thanks to all who posted replies.  I've learnt something as a result of this and I'm still trying to cancel the insurance, I've asked the agent if declaring the car out of service will enable them to cancel but I feel the issue is the policy is in it's first year and, despite this being their fault, they won't cut me any slack.

I've asked them to reduce the cover to responsibilite civile and we'll visit our nearest scrapper to ask what we may be allowed to remove from the car and it still be viable for them.  I assume they're most bothered about the metal in the car and not door panels etc.

Again many thanks.

[woolybanana]

You could look around your area and see if there are any cars in gardens and out of service, then ask the owners what they do/did.

[tasng4]

I think most of these cars have been there since the Ark and as such are outside the system.

[tasng4]

Well I asked the insurance agent if a declaration "retraite de la circulation" would be good enough and they said "merci de nous transmettre un document qui nous précise que le véhicule est hors service ,si la résiliation est acceptée merci de nous retourner votre carte verte"

I suppose this is a step in the right direction.

[Chancer]

[quote user="EuroTrash"]There is no SORN equivalent in France - no need because whether it's on or off the road doesn't change the legalities. In the UK, SORN means you don't have to have it taxed and insured. In France it still needs to be insured and there is no road tax in any case. So the administration isn't interested in whether it's on or off the road, they're only interested in who the current owner is up to the point when it gets scrapped (or exported). A[/quote]

 

I no longer post on this forum but look in occasionally and have to make an exception on this occasion, the above is completely incorrect.

 

France has always had a procedure to declare a vehicle removed from the road, the OP will find all the détails here:

 

https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F1754

 

There is a standard formulaire to fill in: Formulaire cerfa n°13756*02 de déclaration de retrait de circulation du véhicule

 

With that done your resiliation to your insurer will be recevable, they of course claim never to have heard of the procedure when you contradict them [:'(]

 

The vehicle registration remains, its not a deregistration, the closest equivalent is indeed the SORN procedure, the carte grise will be marked "retiré de la circulation" you or a purchaser can put the car back on the road but will have to pay the cost of the carte grise which a purchaser would anyway, any vehicle casse will accept the remains with the carte grise and plates.

[alittlebitfrench]

You no longer post Chancer but I bet you look in everyday.

So how is the other forum going ?

You all seem to be getting on swimmingly.....NOT ! LOL

[tasng4]

If you have a problem with Chancer please send him/her a PM.  I appreciate his/her input on my problem and your post does nothing to help.  Unless you have something constructive to say please don't hijack my post.

[alittlebitfrench]

Oooooh

Why not hop along to your local CT station and ask them. They will know. They put cars off the road everyday.

[tasng4]

As far as I know all CT stations do is test cars.  They have nothing to do with removing them from the road (except if they fail so badly the owner os only allowed to drive home or to a garage) and they wouldn't necessarily know the procedure to 'SORN' them.

I've now declared the car as 'hors de circulation', got the acknowledgement from ANTS and sent it off to the insurance company.  I'll post with the result.......comme d'habitude it'll take them a week to reply.