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URSSAF - what's it all about? and CPAM


Sweetpea

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Hi

Can anyone PLEASE explain what exactly WE get out of paying 600 euros per month (hubby) and 252 (me) to URSSAF?

I know that when hub was off work for 3 months last yr, he wasnt entitled to a penny (sorry cent!)

Why is he paying more this year when he earned less than the previous year?

Also - we somehow ended up with Mutuelle de l'Est as our carte vitale provider, instead of CPAM. Hub's just been sent a 'bill' for 2800 euros; how does this compare with CPAM prices, and why is my cotisation only 600 euros??

Please help - it is a minefield.

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>>>I know that when hub was off work for 3 months last yr, he wasnt entitled to a penny (sorry cent!)<<<

I gather you are self employed?

Self employed are not entitled to unemployment benefits(and sick leave benefits). You must contribute to the system but are not allowed to enjoy it. Sorry, just the way things work in France, it's called Socialism.

>>>Why is he paying more this year when he earned less than the previous year?<<<

Payments are based on your income. However, as you start to earn you have no income history so an low average is been set, and based on that you make your payments. The second year payments will be based on your tax submission of the previous year, with a correction for what you paid the first year. So if you paid the first year 500 a month which should have been 750, this year you will have to pay 1000. 750 for this year and 250 from last year. The 3rd year you will have leveled out and hopefully have reached a stable payment each month.

>>>Also - we somehow ended up with Mutuelle de l'Est as our carte vitale provider, instead of CPAM. Hub's just been sent a 'bill' for 2800 euros; how does this compare with CPAM prices, and why is my cotisation only 600 euros??<<<

Self employed are not insured by the CPAM but by another Mutelle of your choice. I have no idea why your cotisation is lower.

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[quote]>>>I know that when hub was off work for 3 months last yr, he wasnt entitled to a penny (sorry cent!) >>Why is he paying more this year when he earned less than the previous year?<<

Tink,

Was that a throwaway line, it has sod all to do with socialism.

Socialism is what has has been helping lots of Brits to get RMI, low CMU contributions and a mile of other helpful handouts.

If you want to get dole money, then unfortunately don't be self employed. Same thing happens in the UK you know but just like in the UK, there are other aids to help the poor off when unemployed.

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[quote]Tink, Was that a throwaway line, it has sod all to do with socialism. Socialism is what has has been helping lots of Brits to get RMI, low CMU contributions and a mile of other helpful handouts. I...[/quote]

Mikki,

To me Socialism is that everyone who has an income contributes to the system. I only find it strange that people who do contribute a lot, the self employed, do not get to enjoy that very same system.

My remark was meant to be a little sarcastic. I guess that didn't come across well.

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Mikki,

To me Socialism is that everyone who has an income contributes to the system. I only find it strange that people who do contribute a lot, the self employed, do not get to enjoy that very same system.

My remark was meant to be a little sarcastic. I guess that didn't come across well.

Tink,

The problem is that socialism cannot pay for everything and that's when it is seen not to be working, if one feels they cannot get what they see as their "fair" share one blames socialism perhaps? The self employed can get insurance cover to help them when they are sick or claim RMI if they are in need of help.

This is the same in many European countries, including the UK and that is regardless of whoever is in power. At the moment the socialist party are not in power in France. So would you like to blame it on Chiracs party and not the socialists? Same thing in the UK, it was the same during Maggis years and before in Wilsons and before..........................

I understand that it was meant to be sarcastic but the blame cannot simply be laid at the door of socialism can it.

 

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[quote]Mikki, To me Socialism is that everyone who has an income contributes to the system. I only find it strange that people who do contribute a lot, the self employed, do not get to enjoy that very same ...[/quote]

I understand that it was meant to be sarcastic but the blame cannot simply be laid at the door of socialism can it.

No, it can't, but it's so very easy to do for some people... especially if you have had years of the Daily Mail et al pounding away at the same mendacious tune.

I don't know about being self-employed in France, but I know that in the UK the tax benefits alone make insurance against not working a very viable option. Is it the same in France, or have all the dodges and wrinkles been sussed?
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[quote]I understand that it was meant to be sarcastic but the blame cannot simply be laid at the door of socialism can it.No, it can't, but it's so very easy to do for some people... especially if you have h...[/quote]

Dick,

I did not grew up in a particular socialistic country(I'm not british, so I wouldn't know about the Daily Mail), although my dad was a member of the socialistic party. I've always been taught by my parents and by the system that socialism was a very 'fair' system. Everyone was to be cared for by the system, because everyone contributed.

I know the self employed can buy insurance cover for unemployment and sickness. But to me it doesn't seems very fair that they should pay twice. Once by their monthly payments for unemployment and sickness towards the system(URSSAF) which they can't not enjoy but do have to make contributions to and than also pay for insurance.

There are no tax benefits that make it attractive to obtain such insurance.

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Tink,

To understand why there is no unemployment benefit for the self employed you have to realise that one reason is  that there is not much evidence available as to whether or not the person is genuinely unemployed. The old "fiddle" for the self employed used to be (might still be in the UK, too long away to know now) OK, no dole, I'll go on the sick for a while, whilst the work has run out.

The choice for choosing self employment, can be overwhelmingly in favour of doing so, a downside though, is no dole, one is well aware of that from day one. You can quit self employment and then social security will help, when you are felt in need of assistance.

With employment for an employer you are either going to work or you are not. Don't forget if you leave your work voluntarily, then a period of time is set in which you cannot claim "Dole" You may ask then, "is that fair" well I think for obvious reasons, yes.

Here in France it is very common for a person to do 6 months work then quit the job having gained entitlement to return to the dole for a similar period, is that fair on others?

Don't forget we are all paying in to the chomage, well those that work here anyway.

Things may not on the surface feel fair but, in the case of self employment and weighing up the pros and cons, I do feel it is justified to withold dole from us. "Us" being me, self employed for the best part of 30 years

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Well, I only asked!!!  

Thanks Tink - that was useful, if disappointing news!

I certainly didnt want to start a heated and political debate!

It just seems that we 2 are working 8 months just to pay the government et al, and 4 to pay the running costs!!

And, no, hub wasnt 'swinging the lead', he was in intensive care after a heart attack (no doubt contributed to by the constant demands for money!!)

Stiil, it STILL beats living on Blighty!

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Sorry Sweetpea; but it has been repeated again and again on here that artisans and self employed people pay huge cotisations.

 

And please remember that those employed by others pay a lot too, really. The income tax may be low, but my husband loses 29% of his income before he gets it and then we pay income tax ourselves. We are ofcourse 'covered', but that isn't as neat a trick as all that when one ends up with problems, like long term sickness.........but that is quite another story.

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 Well, I only asked!!!  

Thanks Tink - that was useful, if disappointing news!

I certainly didnt want to start a heated and political debate!

SP,

I don't see a heated debate, I think opinions were aired that's all. No one was blasted or slated.

Threads go all over the place and it is rare that a genuine enquiry is put on to cause nastiness, so no, you didn't start anything at all really. Just a brief exchange of opinions and that is what forums are about as well as assisting others.

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