Taking an Employer to the Tribunal ???

[Minouette]

Has anybody else been sacked by a French employer and gone the Tribunal route? 

 

I have been advised by a Conseiller that this is what I should do but, before embarking on this course of action, I would very much like to know just how time-consuming, emotionally draining and generally unpleasant this is likely to be.  I have already spent a lot of time talking with Conseillers, their boss, Assedic and Anpe and I am beginning to wonder if pursuing my ex-employer for ‘the principle’ – he owes me money - is costing too much in both financial and emotional terms. 

 

And is there likely to be a bias against women, especially Brit women, in the courts if she is opposing a man?  I am told that the courts here in the SW are very 'red' and that employers rarely win - even if they are in the right -  but I'm not sure if that would apply when the plaintiff is a Brit lady!

 

Also, is there any form of legal aid in France?    With no job, I certainly do not have the funds to pay a lawyer.

 

Many thanks

Minou

[Deby]

When I worked for a french company,  a couple of the non-cadre (non-management) employees went to the tribunal when it was suggested that they leave.  Before they were encouraged to leave the management followed the rule book by giving written warnings, keeping emails/documentation to have 'evidence' and prove that the employee was incompetent - all official. These people worked out the enforced notice and then promptly went to the tribunals and won!  So it is very difficult in France to give people the sack even when employees are difficult.  I am not saying at all that you are, but even the incompetent ones do get alot of support.  The reason why people don't like getting sacked (apart from the obvious) is it is very difficult for them to get another job and it also affects what they receive from the Assedic and help from the ANPE with regards to training etc.  If the Assedic/ANPE are suggesting you do follow this up then do so.  It is one of those situations that will keep on raising its ugly head.  Find out from the ANPE/ASSEDIC what difficulties you will encounter if you don't follow this up. This is very much a case of knowing to ask the right questions in the first place to get the answers you need.  French people seem to fully understand the system well so maybe you can ask some french friends who could talk you through the process and try and do a search on the internet to find out the law.  A lawyer just tends to interpret what is usually available on some sites.  Maybe Pucette can help you here, she usually has some good links.

Deby

[Val_2]

Minouette. Have you actually spoken to your local Prud'hommes about your case yet? We had a thief for an employee who was also working onthe black and he kept threatening us with the PH if we did not pay him all the extra minutes he had logged from going back from lunch early,this is with him having a signed contract for 39 hours and no more and when I asked him when we could visit the PH he was suddenly taken aback as they do have a fearful reputation towards employers. Just a thought,but they would be the people who would know if you have a solid case or not and whether it is worth pursuing.

[Minouette]

Hello Deby

 

Many thanks for your reply.  You are absolutely right in that knowing the questions to ask is so important… very little information seems to get volunteered!  It is very difficult for me to do a talk through with a French person, though.  The only people I know who are likely to have such knowledge have told me they don’t want to get involved or take sides as they know my ex-employer as well.  In fact, I introduced them!  I’ll keep my ears open for anyone else but, in the meantime, I wonder if you might be able to help with a few more questions?

 

When your ex-colleagues went to the Tribunal and won their cases, did this all happen quite quickly?  One of the reasons that I have not pursued such action is the thought of it all hanging over me for years and years into the future.  My ex-employer owes me a month’s salary and, much as I could use the money, I was more inclined to just chalk it up to experience and treat it as a lesson learned, albeit a rather expensive one, rather than live under the shadow of a court case.  The other reason is wondering whether, as a foreigner and female to boot, this would count against me in the judge’s eyes - that I would thus lose the case and end up with a horrendous legal bill.  Yet another reason is that my ex-employer lives locally and, by winning the case, I could alienate the whole population of my little village!  Maybe I just have a fear of litigation but there seem to be so many things to take into account before proceeding.  Are the French a more litigious race, do you think?

 

Do you know if there is some sort of statute of limitations on employment law?  I was dismissed some months ago and now I'm wondering if this is all academic in that I had to take action there and then or forever hold my peace, as it were??

 

Goodness, this is all getting so flipping complicated!  Do so hope you can help again.

 

Best wishes

Minou

[Minouette]

[quote]Minouette. Have you actually spoken to your local Prud'hommes about your case yet? We had a thief for an employee who was also working onthe black and he kept threatening us with the PH if we did not ...[/quote]

Well, not exactly...  a friend of mine's neighbour used to be a PH and I was hoping to pick his brains but he is currently unwell so I dont like to bother him.  How does one go about finding one?  Are they listed in the annuaire?  I sort of assumed that the PH came into it once it got to the Tribunal thing but I'm probably up totally the wrong tree.  It's part of my problem... not knowing who to ask, and not knowing the questions to ask when I do get there!  All help v.gratefully received.  By the way, do you have to pay PHs for their advice or is it part of the community service?  I've already paid an accountant to work out exactly how much money is owed to me and at this rate I could end up suing the guy for less money than I have paid out.

Big sigh, Minou

[Pucette<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Pucette<FONT><P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt">"Qui ne connaît pas la campagne lhiver, ne connaît pas la campagne et ne connaît pas]

Sorry to say I have no helpful links or advice to offer.

[Brian -there must be a way]

It might be worth going to see a Huissier de Justice who operates as a sort of mediator in legal cases.  Their advice is free and they hold a lot of "sway" within the system.  Look in the 'phone book to find your nearest one.  I know what you mean about wondering if it's worth proceeding with the case, sometimes the trip is just far too debilitating.  I guess you need to ask yourself if you can happily just "let it go" or if the injustice of it all would eat away at you.  Whatever you decide, the very best of luck.

Sue not Brian

[Minouette]

Hi Sue

'you need to ask yourself if you can happily just "let it go" or if the injustice of it all would eat away at you.'

You have hit the nail on the head.  The whole situation is so debilitating and frustrating... some days I just want to wash my hands of the whole thing and then, the next day, I do a complete U-turn and end up mentally storming at my ex-employer and being even angrier with myself for letting him get away with it.  I have so much other stuff on my plate at the moment that if I was sensible I would just let it go and spend my time on better, more important, more lucrative tasks.  Then the proud Leo in me takes over and gives me a ticking off for being such a wimp. 

Maybe I should just toss a coin?

Minou

[Tourangelle]

is this last posting some kind of joke?

Jane

[Will]

[quote]is this last posting some kind of joke? Jane[/quote]

No, just the sort of balanced, liberal opinion that some forum members like to share with us 

[Mysfloss]

Have sent PM

[Jo53]

Minouette

If it's any help, my brother is an employment lawyer in the UK and he says it is rarely worthwhile to sue for unfair dismissal, either financially or emotionally. We were facing this dilemma a few months ago when my husband was dismissed (unfairly). His union rep said the PH process would take about 18 months, assuming that the employer appealed. He decided not to sue, because if he had done, the employer would have withdrawn its offer of a small redundancy settlement. We decided to take the money and move on.

I suppose you have to balance up what you have to gain against what you have to lose (both financially and in quality of life terms). I don't think there is anything wimpish in deciding to wash your hands of this asshole and move onwards and upwards, onto a higher plane than his sordid level. I know from experience that it's hard to deal with the anger, but you have to because it prevents you moving on.

Re what another poster said about French people knowing the system - a lot think they do, but not everything they say is accurate. You didn't happen to have 'protection juridique' in your household insurance, did you? If so it would pay your legal costs.

Jo