Miki Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 OK, most of us know that one cannot trade in France under the banner ofa Ltd company based in the UK and get away without paying the heavy andoften, inhibitive cotisations here ......right ?Well, over the last 5 years or so, since being in Brittany, I have gotto know pretty well, a couple of French chaps who mostly dealwith cars, accessories and tyres. I have dealt with them and theyhave become good acquaintances ofours. Today, I was talking with them, in their office and I was sayingjust how crazy the work laws were and how I thought France needed to free upthe work place and ease the restrictive cotisations, both for employerand employee. We all agreed and also thought the the new chequed'emploi regulations might help a little for a few folks to get a bitof work here and there but, in reality, whilst the continuing highcharges continued as they historically have always been, then Francewill always have employment problems.A bottle of the stuff from the Charente came out, we all said chin,chin (don't know why they were looking at mine in the way they didthough !!) and one of them said, " Of course, it is much betterif one simply registers their little company in the UK and has a goodaccountant here to sort out all the financial side". I said but I thought that was a bit iffy and what about health and retirement issues, amongst other things ?On further "digging" I was told that their accountant (based in centralBrittany) sorts it all out for them (as well as others they knew doingthe same thing), they pay private (yes Private) health cover andpay private retirement pensions. Although they both work togetherin the same commerce, they have seperate Ltd companies and eveythingthey earn is sorted out seperately. They pay no "cotisations" here at all.I totally believe them, they showed me their cards, headed paper and"company" stamp and all had their initials and Ltd Co after, plus anaddress in the UK and a French address on the other side of the paper.All of which I had never noticed before.So there you go, don't ask me for any more info, as that was as far asI wanted to go today. I personally am not interested in going alongthat route (I would have done some years ago though !) so did notpursue it any more. I might one day when the time is right again but Idon't want to appear too inquisitive and slowly, slowly catchee monkeyeh !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Riff-Raff Element Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Well, keep stalking them - it all sounds fascinating. Let me know if you need dibs for more firewater. [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val_2 Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Very confusing. An english man we did some work for on his property years ago suddenly appeared here registered in the UK magazines as a Ltd building co and then on Infobilan he is registered as a SARL. How can you be both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert the infopikey Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 I'm more familiar with UK company law than French, but I believe that in both systems a company (Ltd or SARL) is a separate legal entity and an individual can hold two job with separate companies at once. How all this goes when it comes to personal taxation and NI/cotisations is another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miki Posted February 17, 2006 Author Share Posted February 17, 2006 Ah yes, I brought up the N.I and self employed stamp and class 4payments (I have been away from the UK for many years, so don't evenknow about how much a self employed stamp is and even if annualclass 4 payments still exist ?, still no matter read on....) inthe UK and they had no idea if they were paying them but one of themthought he wasn't. No tax was paid either, as after the accountant had sorted out the affairs, none was supposedly liable. I have been, like many of us, been hearing rumours for many years thatone can do what they are doing and have always asked the person who hadsaid it can be done, how and who is he person? Never found that person until now.The facts are, that there are many French companies are installed inthe south of England (and probably elsewhere), doing exactly the samework as they were, when based in France but said to be saving a fortuneon their overall costs of employment and cotisations etc. I guess thesetwo enquired further and have taken advantage, with help from their"expert" and are making it work for them.Val, as stated, it is possible to have both but why and for what purpose, I would like to know the reason.They drink Laurent Perrier Rosé by the bucket jond.....................[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Riff-Raff Element Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 [quote user="Miki"]They drink Laurent Perrier Rosé by the bucket jond.....................[:D][/quote]Whatever happened to cheap dates....If you are ever able to get to the bottom of this, I would dearly liketo know how they do it. I'm not sure that I could face the additionalpaperwork (bad enough as it is...), but after being told so many timesthat this sort of thing just is not possible and I would quite like tobe able to say "oh, but it is!"I've got some lemonade, a bottle of unlabelled grape spirit and someblackcurrent syrup. I'll experiment and let you know what I can supply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miki Posted February 17, 2006 Author Share Posted February 17, 2006 Cheap dates went of the window when we were nearly out of school and the gals found g & t's !!If I find this out and, this will take time, bit by bit, eventhen, knowing the French, I suspect something will be missing intranslation!! but still if I do, then I am bottling it and selling it on the net at well above scam prices!! The name of the accountant would be nice though ! My fear is,can you imagine if this is 100% correct and it gets out, as to just howmany Brits (and French come to that) will be doing it all thisway ? And how long would it be, until the authorities put a bung in it tostop the leak !As for your drink.....we send rockets up with a similar melange ! It's all to do with the unlabelled stuff, apparently [:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owens88 Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 There are times in the year when even UK biggest companies (the utilities) bring in complete teams from abroad (generally Ireland) to do engineering work.There are times when I have worked abroad for UK companies, and in UK for overseas companies. All of the above is well known and 'kosher' (just to avoid saying 'above board' ) and totally allowed by eu law. What I 'thought' was different is that if the 'working IN France' bit exceeds a certain amount/timescale, then France wanted a local registration. And also if one is living IN France, then ...Do keep up the detective work. Insure your liver though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaligoBay Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Not sure if this is really the same thing (I am a bear of very little brain, after all)......... http://www.guardian.co.uk/eu/story/0,,1711741,00.htmlAnyone fancy setting up an Expat Undertaker business? [:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owens88 Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 >The "country of origin" principle, in which the proverbial Polish plumber could have worked in France on a temporary basis according to his country's rules, has been removed. Under new provisions, France would not be allowed to impose unfair restrictions, but the plumber would have to abide by French labour and health laws. And who could challenge that ? It would have been downright stupid for the 'country of origin' principle to have become law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo53 Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 I know someone in the services/consultancy type bracket who has been working thru a UK Ltd co and living in France for years. They pay themselves PAYE from their company, and declare all their revenues to the French impots. They are covered for healthcare under the reciprocal EU country arrangements as they pay NI in the UK. They are convinced it is completely above board, and the French Impots know the situation. They have an expensive accountant. I think a key part of it is being vague about how long you intend to stay in France when you first set it all up (not that big a lie really - few of us are certain about the future after all).But when I looked into doing it myself (without the expensive accountant) I didn't think it was possible. This friend set up about 6 years ago; maybe things were more lax then.Jo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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