Tax pro and stuff...

[Milou]

Hello from a new member,

 Although I have searched the forum I can find no information on this subject.

What are the expected levels of tax professional for a micro bic?

Is this dependent only on location of business?

 I have a friend who has been in business for one year and has declared 5500euros.

His tax pro was 350 euros.

If that state is going to take 48.5% of my profit in social charges alone then what should I expect to allow for in the way of tax pro?

 Also, does any-one have any idea about how much to charge (other than the Brit going rate) in order to obtain at least 7euros in the pocket per hour.

The value of the investment in the business (equipment) is 40'000euros

I know I should see an accountant and I will if I don't find the information myself first.

 Thanks to the forum members in advance for thier replies.

             Milou

 

 

[Nick Trollope]

Welcome...

Tax pro is fixed by the commune - 207€ here - payable regardless.

If you have invested 40K in eqipment, then you shouldn't be a micro, and your business plan needs some looking at, if you think you need to return 7€/hr (nearly 3 years of work just to repay the investement!), As an Artisan, I need to charge about 35€/hr, to make a sensible living. (small family, no significant outgoings, wife works, 4 vehicles - of which 2 are business ones & all are paid for etc etc...)

But, to answer your question, add 60% to your "take-home" to get a rate.

See an accountant anyway! It is almost mandatory for most.

HTH!

[Milou]

Hello and thank you for replying.

 Does anyone know why some micro regimes have a 40% allowance and others a 70%

Ta.

 

[Albert the InfoGipsy]

If you are buying & selling goods then you get 70% whereas if you are just providing a service you get 40%. This makes sense because the profit on turnover is normally much higher for a service business than for retailing, for example. There are some anomalies and I believe that gites, for instance, qualify for 70% but a number of gite owners run things like gardening services off the back of their registration.

 

[Milou]

Strange that you should say gardening as that is exactly what I did in the Britain before coming out to France to live with my French partner.

I still have my equipments and am prepared to give it a crack here.

Is there anyone out there who is in this line of business and especially who has survived more than 3 years in business who would like to talk about it with me?

Our business experience, equipment and projected size is aimed at small to large domestic and commercial properties, mostly maintenance based.

I am aware that many British work soley for British although we hope to avoid that cliche.

Also any-one any ideas on the spectrum of going rates for different services/machines.

Any info welcome!

Ta.

[Milou]

Hello again,

 We have asked around the Brit community abit and found that every-one so far that offers 'gardening' also rents out gites.

This leaves us wondering if its worth registering just as actual gardeners or trying to get into this other regime with its 68% allowance by some means.

Seems a bit of a tax dodge!

This 68% is really worth having.

Can any-one shed some light on the situation please?

        Regards

           Milou

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Milou"]Hello again,

 We have asked around the Brit community abit and found that every-one so far that offers 'gardening' also rents out gites.

This

leaves us wondering if its worth registering just as actual gardeners

or trying to get into this other regime with its 68% allowance by some

means.

Seems a bit of a tax dodge!

This 68% is really worth having.

Can any-one shed some light on the situation please?

        Regards

           Milou

[/quote]

Go and talk to your local tax office. Tell them what you want to do and

they will tell you how it works. They can be astoundingly helpful as

they would rather collect tax from you than prosecute you.

There is no dodge - many people offer "property services" ie key

holding, light gardening, changeovers and rent out a gite on top. All

these activities can be placed under the "service" category of a micro

BIC regime and therefore allowed an abattement of 68% on revenue upto

76,300€, the balance 32% being assumed income assessed for tax and

social charges. But don't take my word for it. An accountant or tax

officer is far better qualified.

[Milou]

Hello,

 Thank you for your reply,

   The information we have from the various chambres tell us that the allowance for either paysagists or entretien espaces verts  is 40% and is the regular micro regime norm.

What is the correct name for the catagory  'property services' in France?

As it carries this higher allowance it would be worth while for us.

 Off to the tax office with the French Mother in law next!

         Thank you

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Milou"]Hello,

 Thank you for your reply,

  

The information we have from the various chambres tell us that the

allowance for either paysagists or entretien espaces verts  is 40%

and is the regular micro regime norm.

What is the correct name for the catagory  'property services' in France?

As it carries this higher allowance it would be worth while for us.

 Off to the tax office with the French Mother in law next!

         Thank you

[/quote]

Sorry Milou - I just read my own reply again and I have to say I have

written complete rot. Blame it on the early start. I'll try again.

Activities under a Micro BIC regime are divided into two categories.

Cat 1 - Revenue of upto 76300 € arising either from sales activity or

from providing accomodation (gites, or furnished long-term rental);

Cat 2 - Revenue of upto 27000 € from "other services or activities" - such as gardening, key holding, whatever.

Revenue from Cat 1 or Cat 2 recieves an abbatement of 68%.

Now, as I understand (we've only ever been under Cat 1, you see) these

can be combined, but in this case the revenue is treated somewhat

differently. An example might help.

Say you make a revenue of €50000 from gites and €10000 from some keyholding, gardening, etc.

The larger sum would be subject to the 68% abbatement giving a revenue

for tax purposes of €16000. The revenue from Cat 2 would, however, get

a lower abbatement - 52% I THINK, adding a further 4800€ to the revenue

for taxation - a total of €20800.

It is important to note that the services offered under Cat 2 should

not be those that require proper registration: light gardening and

maintenance is one thing, but landscaping, building and such like is

very much the preserve of properly registered paysagists or builders.

Now these professions will probably be subject to quite different

rules, and quite outside my experience, but I believe micro regimes for

these also exist (anyone?).

I think that property management is known as "gestion immobilière" and a management company as "société de gestion".

Either way, it is important to make sure that you are registered for

what you are actually doing, or everyone gets terribly upset, so if

your MIL is up for it, a trip to the impôts would be a good idea.

[Milou]

Hello Jon,

 Now thats what I call a reply!

Who does the checking ona micro to see if its getting its cash from accomadation or gardening?

 Ta for that!

[The Riff-Raff Element]

[quote user="Milou"]Hello Jon,

 Now thats what I call a reply!

Who does the checking ona micro to see if its getting its cash from accomadation or gardening?

 Ta for that!

[/quote]

Ah! A good question. The idea behind micro regimes was to make it as

simple as possible for people to set up in business without robbing the

state coffers too much. Think of it like a stepping stone - the powers

that be hope you will be successful and will at some point step into

the wonderful world of a réél.

In a micro, there is very little paperwork: no real books to keep, few

records, no VAT. All that is reported at the end of the year is the

gross revenue (ie turnover). However, like all businesses in France,

the fiscs can choose to investigate you. It is often said that a micro involves no paperwork. That is not true. You are supposed to keep sufficient

records (and keep them for the lifetime of your business activity and

many years afterwards) to be able to demonstrate where income came

from. This is necessary to comply with the rules on money laundering.

For gite owners, keeping copies of booking forms is an obvious record;

for service businesses one of those carbon copy facture books from the

supermarket would probably do.

However, get investigated and admit that you have no records...nasty.

Or be found to have been doing one thing when you'd been saying you'd

been doing another? Death by a thousand cuts. Well, a bigish fine

(several thousands of Euros) and possible incarceration if they thought

you'd been doing something really naughty. Often the impôts get a

tip-off from someone or they just decide that you haven't declared

enough for the kind of work you are doing (there is reputed to be a

bell-shaped curve: if you're under the main part of the curve, all well

and good; otherwise you're suspect). Many accountants (well, ours

anyway) suggest keeping records as though one were running a réél. Now

that we're in the process of changing to a réél I am very pleased that

we did.

Certainly keeping one's nose shiney clean and confessing every penny has its attractions.