Steve Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 I am interested in moving to France, probaly for the same reasons as everyone else who has / or are moving there.My question is regarding how I make my living.At present I use Betfair (betting exchange) to trade on sports markets, I am fortunate enough to make a very comfortable living (tax free - as in the UK gambling earnings are not taxable.).We want to move to France and I see no reason why I cannot continue to earn as I do. I am completely ignorant to how the French tax system works, but I am guessing that although the money I make will be paid directly into my British bank account I will need to declare that to the French Inland Revenue. Am I on the right tracks? Also, what rate of tax would I pay on £100,000 paIncidentaly, I am not or would not try to avoid paying tax or contributing to the society I live in, just want to know where I stand.Would appreciate any help on thisRegardsSteve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Hi Steve, wow, if you make £100,000 pa from gambling I'm staggered. You haven't got next weeks Lotto numbers by any chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Trollope Posted July 3, 2007 Share Posted July 3, 2007 Regardless of how much you actually earn, you will pay about 20% in social charges (NI-ish) plus income tax, the amount of which depends entirely upon your circumstances. Whilst lower than the UK, it ain't 0!Worldwide income for a French resident is treated more-or-less the same, regardless of its source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 3, 2007 Author Share Posted July 3, 2007 I'm staggered too :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 3, 2007 Author Share Posted July 3, 2007 Thanks for that Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babnik Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Once you move to France, even if you continue to use a UK credit card, you'll need to change the address for that card to your French residence. Once you do that, you'll notice you are not allowed to enter bets into online gambling sites as gambling in France is illegal unless you go through the state owned gaming company "Francais des Jeux". Don't really see a way around this.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoddy Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 This post has got me thinking.I lose money on the horses. Could I set my losses against my income and therefore pay less tax ?Hoddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pierre ZFP Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Yeah - you wish ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 4, 2007 Author Share Posted July 4, 2007 The only reason they don't tax gambling in UK is for that reason. Imagine how many would file tax returns with all their loses on to offset other earnings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deby Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Whats your secret? Any tips!? It is true about the residence and credit cards. So I can't see a way round it unless you don't declare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeb Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 Erm - is this an advert? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardhat Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 its quite legal to have a bet fair account in france done with a french address and french card ive got one,also got a betfair account to an english address whats the problem,dont think its taxable in any country as you could lose every thing you had with one stupid bet,by the way bet youve had a few quid off me,just wish i had the patience ,bon chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Trollope Posted July 4, 2007 Share Posted July 4, 2007 [quote user="hardhat"]its quite legal to have a bet fair account in france done with a french address and french card ive got one,also got a betfair account to an english address whats the problem,dont think its taxable in any country as you could lose every thing you had with one stupid bet,by the way bet youve had a few quid off me,just wish i had the patience ,bon chance[/quote]As I say above, all income is taxable in France. But, of course "income" equates to "profit" where a gambler in concerned. Make bundles this year, pay tax. Lose it all next year and pay nowt (no, you won't get last years back..). That's taxation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanary Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 I guess it is time I revealed myself as well...I am a secret agent and because of the risks I take, my remuneration always comes tax paid. In an average year, I receive a little over £5,000,000. Can anybody help suggest ways of spending it when I move to my French house? Also, does anyone know of a Bentley agent in the Loches area? Oh, and a private airstrip in that area as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jxedwards Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Mel,I am not fully able to answer your question as you do not reveal which secret service you are employed by.I know from my personal experience working as an agent for the Welsh section Mi-Taff that you can offset any income tax against your expense.As our dept head allows non recieptable expense of up to $10,000 a time then you can be very creative with your expense forms. As I frequently have to deal with the Welsh underworld (Tafia) then I find it easy enogh to reduce my income tax costs.I am not sure on the rules outside of the UK but I suspect that they will be the same as all EU countries should have signed up for the 'Letstryandfooltheforum' agreement!As for a Bently dealer in the Loches area not to sure.Hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Betting is of course taxed in the UK; by betting tax.What is not taxed, thus far, are wins. Give it time!Fruit machines and other games of chance are also quite well taxed: however it is a series of separate taxes and mind blowingly complicated to explain.If the UK Revenue really wanted to tax a professional gambler, then they probaby would: they have the absolute power to assess any person or company for whatever sum they see fit. It is then up to the assessed person or company to prove them wrong!It's similar to levying income tax on prostitution.HMIRAC treats private punters wholly differently to professional activity of any sort.Spread betting whilst nominally outside the current definition of "Trade", can be deemed as a trade and taxed accordingly, subject to a number of peripheral and contributing circumstances.I note that the OP specificlly used the term "Trade on ....................." etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chessfou Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 [quote]It's similar to levying income tax on prostitution.[Gluestick][/quote]I don't think so; there's a whole raft of UK legal precedent for winnings not being taxable. I can't remember the detail but as I recall the most important test case involved a card (poker, I think) player whose trade was running a loss-making cafe in one room of which he made his living playing poker and his winnings were deemed to be separate from the trade and untaxable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanary Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 jxedwards - thanks for that very helpful information... (a Welsh friend of mine) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jxedwards Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Mel,Are you infering I look like a sheep.......................?Been disguised as one a few times whilst undercover!Must go the red hot line phone is ringing.It will be Q with more gadgets!John AKA........................................ Baa Baa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanary Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Be careful out there...I hope ewe got on OK with Q's call...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 [quote user="chessfou"][quote]It's similar to levying income tax on prostitution.[Gluestick][/quote]I don't think so; there's a whole raft of UK legal precedent for winnings not being taxable. I can't remember the detail but as I recall the most important test case involved a card (poker, I think) player whose trade was running a loss-making cafe in one room of which he made his living playing poker and his winnings were deemed to be separate from the trade and untaxable.[/quote]Perhaps you are thinking of the cases of Down v Compston [1937] 21TC60 and Burdge v Pyne [1968] ?http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/bimmanual/BIM22019.htmHowever, as I stated before, if the Revenue want to, then they have absolute power to assess a person and require that person to prove the assessment is inaccurate or falls outside the scope of any of the current schedules which cover self-employment and trade: i.e. Cases I, II, III and IV.And, if they fancy it, they'll run you to the House of Lords! It's not their money!However, what do I know? I'm just an accountant in UK practice who specialises in Tax Planning! [blink] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jxedwards Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 Not really I got fleeced.....................................[:-))] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 Gluestick,I am very repsectful of the IR as I realise their seemingly limitness power.I fill in a tax return and declare my earnings, thankfully they don't take anything from me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCanary Posted July 5, 2007 Share Posted July 5, 2007 What! You pay no tax?On a day I have just paid my half-yearly tax bill, that really jars me off big time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted July 5, 2007 Author Share Posted July 5, 2007 If it makes you feel any better my last tax bill (when I was employed) was 25k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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