New House Build - A cautionary tale

[Brassed off]

A couple of years back we decided to have a house built in France, we did all our homework before opting to have our house built by a franchise of a major French company.

The contract stated that the house would be ready by a certain date and had , what we thought were a number of guarantees and safeguards to protect us. eg fixed and guaranteed price, penalties for late completion etc.

With the company that we chose we had the option to have the house built by the company and do the interior works ourselves or have the whole works completed by this company.As we were living in the UK at the time ,we chose the latter option.

Last year we moved to France to find that the interior of the house was nowhere near completion, despite the date having been agreed a couple of moths before. All our belongings were arriving that day from England and we needed the keys so that we could at least store all our furniture, for that we were required to pay the last installment. We did this as an act of good faith and because it was cheaper than having our things returned to the UK only to be brought back again later. Yes we may have been naive but we still thought we had a watertight contract.

Eventually  most of the interior work was completed but not all despite our having paid over the 'agreed and guaranteed contract price'. Months of letter writing ensued, all of which were sent recorded delivery and all of which were ignored.

We eventually were forced to hire a solicitor, then we found out that the franchise had gone into liquidation.

We tried to make a claim on the assurance dommage ouvrage, which we required to take out and it aint cheap, only to find that this does not cover the interior works. The limits of the insurance were not mentioned anywhere on the contract.

So, forget all the checks and balances, the promises and guarantees, because as we found out to our cost, they are worth nothing at all.

 

 

[Anton Redman]

Suggest to the owner of the brand that you were induced to enter into the contract because of their advertising and their reputation. You would not for instance have hired M. Dupont in the next hamlet to build you home. Point out the number of websites and hits that sites like <<Living France>> generate.  Send them a video of <<Watchdog>> with Nick Cambell in full spate. Suggets you were thinking about walking up and down out side their stand at ther next property exhibition they attend with hand outs and a sandwichboard describing you experience. Suggest that as you were resident in the UK when the contract was signed and are therefore comsidering bypassing the French courts. Do anything which makes it clear you will cost them at lot of money if it is cheap to you. Then write to them propossing a reasonable settlement.    

[Brassed off]

Thanks,

I think that contacting the parent company is the only option we have left  and hope perhaps that they might feel obliged to make some small amends.

I didnt realise that we could take court action in theUK though but as our contract was with the franchise, I think we might not get very far.

I am thinking of creating a web site, not slanderous but with evidence of what has happened to us, but we are too raw at the moment. It was as much as I could manage to tell my tale albeit briefly, here.

 

[BJSLIV]

There are numerous French websites describing nightmare house builds. Most of them concern subsidiaries of a handful of "the usual suspects" (national companies).

[Opalienne]

In my local paper at the weekend there was an advert from a TV production company looking for cases just like yours.   Unfortunately I threw it away, but maybe it was in other papers too?   You could also try contacting the TV programme presented by Julien Courbet - I forget the name but it's a kind of French WatchDog.   Just the mention of Julien Courbet might do the trick.

[Brassed off]

Thanks again,

As we have exhausted almost all avenues, our next action needs to be carefully considered. Thanks for all the suggestions so far, please keep them coming.

 

[David Taylor]

Hi,

About to embark on building having identified land, could you tell us where you are or who the builder is so we avoid?

[le bouffon]

It`s the word "option" that I find a problem to take in,may I ask if the contract was in french (and if not was an english traslation which are normally none binding)as you do not say if the contract to build the house(not the inside) was done on time.

[Brassed off]

The contract was in French which we understood but we also had an translation just to be doubly sure.

The relevant part of the contract gave us the choice of having just the house built and overseeing and arranging the internal works ourselves or having the whole house done . We ticked the latter box.  So yes it was an option but not a non descipt vague one.

The entire works should have been finished by the date on the contract or the company was supposed to pay penalties for every day late, but of course this has not happened.

It just seems that all these guarantees and they are pretty much the same accross the board are not enforsible. No one has stepped in to honour the contract or pay us any kind of compensation.

I cannot name the company here. and I know from being in france for a while that there are some solid companies out there. All I would say is shop around, try and get some first hand recommendations and get a solicitor to check the contract is watertight in the event that a company goes bust. It might cost a bit but I think it would be money well spent.

Would it be possible to send me a private message with the details of the dodgy franchises on it?

[le bouffon]

I only ask because we did look at having a house built,we had an option of insurance,and also not like your experience but only paying 5% upfront and nothing more until the hand over of the keys on completion.

[Brassed off]

Ours was different then in that we had to make staged payments on completion of different stages and pay the last bit on the handover of the keys. The insurance in our case was compulsory, though god knows why, for all the good it did us;

[La Vette]

We had similar problems.  We were told that minor problems would be sorted in 2 weeks.  We paid for the key as we were doing internal work ourselves and wanted to get on so our furniture could be delivered.  After paying we found out that EDF could not connect electricity for 6 weeks.  We had a gas tank put in by a different company within a few days but could not get the builders plumber to come out to connect to the house.  He took 2 months and we couldn't use another plumber as we had signed the devi.  For financial and other reasons we had to move in.  We tried everything, crying, begging, shouting and screaming (I am known as the crazy english woman in their office) and talking to a notaire.  It was b......y cold in our house last November.[:@]

All I can say is DONT PAY until you are 100% happy that the house is completed.

All's well that ends well but it was a nightmare at the time.

[le bouffon]

This thread has all the hallmarks of becoming a knock the new build,is a conspiracy against new build by immo`s?La vette posted that the gas tank was put in by a different company(not the fault of the house builders)and that the EDF could not connect the lec`ie,no fault of the house builders once again,as now all is right,new build is not such a bad way to go.

[Brassed off]

No, please dont think that I am not knocking all house new house builds , I certainly think in principal they are a good way of getting the house you want.

 But if you are one of those people who are comforted by the thought of a binding contract with guarantees etc as we were, then you could be disappointed. Because the trouble with guarantees is , that you only need them when things go wrong and it was then we found out that they were pretty useless. No higher authority stepped in to honour them as we thought would happen.

These forums advise people to do their homework, which we did, but nothing is foolproof!

I think people need to be aware that for every X amount of good experiences , there is one nightmare and when it happens to you, especially in a different country, it is soul destroying!

[Val_2]

If it makes you feel better, the same thing happened to a couple building a new house about 300m from us, two years back now and by a very well known house builder advertising all over Brittany. Its not a thing against english people either as this couple are local born and bred bretons, to say they were livid at the general finish or lack of it, is an overstatement but luckily the husband works for the commune and is very handy so he has managed to do the interior himself. People should be aware that businesses do fold up and it seems the client is nearly always the last to find out.

[Teamedup]

Brassed off, who were you expecting to be the 'higher authority' that would be of help?

 

[Brassed off]

With all the checks and balances that seemed to be in place to guarantee that the house would be finished on a set date, at a set price and with penalties for late completion, together with the thousands of euros that we had to pay for Assurance D.O. , I really thought that when the company went belly up, that either the Insurance company would cough up or the parent company or something.

Obviously  I didn't think for one minute that the company would go bust and that we would be left out of pocket, with an unfinished house and useless bits of paper.

[La Vette]

Just to clear up a point.  In the case of our new build it was the responsibility of the construction company to arrange for EDF to connect the electricity, they forgot to do this.  Their electrician had to put cable through the ducting leading to the house after EDF connected us, they did not turn up on many occasions.  The gas tank was put in within days of ordering but the builders plumber had to connect the tank to the house and set up the central heating system.  Again, he missed many appointments and took nearly 6 weeks after the tank went in to come out.

I am not knocking new build either and we now have a lovely house.  I would even receommend the company.  It was just those final few problems and the thread was about handing over the key money when things were not finished.  Even the agent for the building company was nudging us to tell us not to pay but could not say in front of his Director.  He said if we held back the cheque the work would have been done in the stated 2 weeks. 

[Fed Up]

I have been sent Form H1 to fill in and send to impots. I am not sure what date I should say the house was finished on, because I am not sure how they define finished.

To my mind "finished" is when the building contractors should have met all of their contractual obligations but this did not happen. I don't want to get into any bother with the impots but I am not sure what date I should put on the form - any advice?

 

BTW Brassed off is now Fed Up ![*-)]

 

[Iceni]

Sorry to read yr tale of woe.

IIRC somewhere in the notes accompanying the H1 there is a definition of "finished" for tax purposes.

John

not

[BJSLIV]

Once you have accepted the house by signing at the Reception des Travaux the house is completed. You then  have 90 days after the completion date to send in the Achevement des Travaux form to the Mairie and it is usually that the brings on the form H1.

If the house could be lived in things such as decoration, and general fitting out, external finishing do not mean that the house is incomplete.

We had a bit of a debate because though we had signed to receive the house , and the house was decorated etc etc, there we still had to wait a further 15 months for the drains to arrive. In this case we managed to convince them that because of failings by the drainage authority the house was not completed.

Bear in mind it is the completeion date that starts the , two year, clock ticking if you want any fitting out work done at 5.5%VAT.

 

[Fed Up]

Never had a Achevement des travaux form filled or otherwise, although the Impots want a copy of that too.

[Btuckey]

[quote user="BJSLIV"]

Snip:

Bear in mind it is the completeion date that starts the , two year, clock ticking if you want any fitting out work done at 5.5%VAT.

[/quote]

I thought that only restoration projects were at 5.5% with new houses being at the full rate.  Or do you mean that you can take advantage of the 5.5% when the house is over two years old?

 

Brian 11500

[BJSLIV]

Or do you mean that you can take advantage of the 5.5% when the house is over two years old?

Exactement![:D]

Never had a Achevement des travaux form filled or otherwise, although the Impots want a copy of that too.

Its down to you, as the owner, to complete this form once the work is completed ,in just the same way that the "ouverture de chantier" form is submitted at the start of the works.

Blanks of both forms are usually included with the paperwork when the planning  permission is granted.

An incentive to get the paperwork in on time is that if you delay, you can lose the right to one of your two years exemption from the taxes fonciere.

[Fed Up]

[quote user="BJSLIV"]

Never had a Achevement des travaux form filled or otherwise, although the Impots want a copy of that too.

Its down to you, as the owner, to complete this form once the work is completed ,in just the same way that the "ouverture de chantier" form is submitted at the start of the works.

Blanks of both forms are usually included with the paperwork when the planning  permission is granted.

An incentive to get the paperwork in on time is that if you delay, you can lose the right to one of your two years exemption from the taxes fonciere.

[/quote]

RE  the forms -The building company handled all that. we just expected at the end of the build period to move into a ready made house, all paperwork completed.

Do you think we will be financially penalised because of the actions of these bl**dy builders that were totally beyond our control?