Jump to content
Complete France Forum

How do I set up a business doing "odd jobs" for people?


Richie-Bytes

Recommended Posts

I know there is a market in my region for someone to do simple, semi-skilled jobs around the home - painting, cleaning out gutters, replacing broken tiles, cutting the lawn, etc. Basically jobs it isn't worth paying a fully-qualified artisan to do. What I want to know is how I can do this and earn enough money to pay my taxes and other Governmental requirements?

Is it true that the more varied jobs I do the more tax I pay? What would I have to charge people, and can I make a living out of it? Has anyone succeeded (or failed) at this venture?

I understand that I will have to pay fees up front, and that there is some kind of book-keeping course I will have to do, but I don't even know what type of company I have to apply for. I'm not exactly loaded, so if there is any way of keeping the cost down I'd like to know about it! Any help would be really appreciated. I'm blind here!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is the sort of home-help the CESU covers.

More details here: http://www.cesu.urssaf.fr/cesweb/ces1.jsp

The home owner employs you to do odd jobs pertaining to his/her home.

In effect, you become an employee and are paid by cheque for an agreed hourly rate which cannot be lower than the SMIC (minimum wage currently set at €7.14/€7.16 including 10% in lieu of holiday pay))

The employer (home owner) requests a special chequebook from his/her bank to cover the payment of social contributions related to your employment.

You can have many such employers.

The advantages for the employer:

  • the paperwork relating to employing someone is straightforward.
  • there is a tax incentive (varying according to the type of work done)

The advantages for the employee:

  • you get a foothold in the social system
  • your get paid according to the hours you have worked (no deductions)
  • your tax declaration is straightforward
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Clair this is really helpful - this is an avenue i didn't even know existed! But would every employer have to apply for one of these chequebooks, or would it be held by me? For example, if I worked for someone for just one or two days, would they have to go through this process to pay me, or could i declare the payment by another means? My French is terrible, by the way, and computer-translated legal jargon never seems to make much sense! Thanks very much for your help!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The SMIC stated earlier seems rather low ?

Pour information, 8,44 euros de l'heure, pour 35 heures de travail hebdomadaire, soit 151,6 heures mensuelles = 1280 euros brut.

This of course the general rate and does not take in to account all the variations, such as ages, apprentissage, Bac etc

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="Clair"]Each employer pays you with a normal bank cheque, but has his/her own CESU chequebook to pay the contributions, as these vary according to the employer's age and other conditions...[/quote]

Not quite right.  The employer has a CESU cheque book which is in two parts per payment, the first being what looks like a normal cheque (with the CESU logos on it) and the second part is the volet that is completed with the details of the employer/employee period of employ/hours worked etc. this second part is sent off to CESU which then generates a 'payslip' for the employee and a statement for the employer.  The amount deducted from the employer's bank account is the cheque amount + cotisations.

I am paid by CESU by various people and I have a CESU chequebook of my own incase I decide to pay anyone by this method so I am quite familiar with it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But the bit you get does look like a normal cheque.  Take a closer look at it next time you get one - you'll see across the top it has all the Cheque Emploi logos.  It is issued by his normal bank and will show his name and address just like his 'normal' cheque book.

Except for the additional logo it is exactly like a normal cheque.  I've just dug my chequier out to check!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

    re:

I work for 2 employers who pay me with CESU and they both use normal cheques... Weird..

You can now use any method to pay somebody under CESU (personal cheque, cash)

in this case, the employer registers  on the CESU website and makes all the  declarations on their webite .

The person being paid with the CESU system can also register and check the declarations made for them, and I think, can print an "attestation d'emploi",  and this is all quicker than using the cheques issued by a bank.

Dominique

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi, this is my first post although i have watched this forum for a while.  My husband has been gardening for local people using 'Cheque Employ Service'.  it works very well but be warned that much of what you have said you wish to do isnt allowed on that regime - belive me for the past 6 months we have been trying to find a way around all this red tape.  you are basically confined to gardening - which is ONLY cutting lawns etc, any addition of features ie paths or repairing walls or making flower beds are banned.  this is artisan work and for that you must be registered as a landscape gardener with chamber de meteir (sorry perhaps not spelled that quite right!).  as for roofing - even replacing tiles again....... - painting and decorating is also not available on 'Cheque Employ Service' although you dont need to be an artisan you must be registered with the chamber of commerce (at least thats the cheapest one!). The cheque is basically for house cleaning, hedge cutting grass mowing etc.  it was set up to assist people to return to work by allowing them to have cheap assistance in the home.  it certainly wasnt set up for those of us who just want a nice little business!

BUT having said all this, we have been given some great help by our local government agency.  They are honest and unbiased.  most accountants are strictly not to be trusted - people seem to have this thing about asking them for help but they are NEVER going to recommend the micro enterprise because you dont need THEM!

Each business is totally individual and really you need to speak to an agency one on one to get as much help as you can.  Our fees for the first year are only 72.50 and that was for registering the business because we used this agency.  the normal fees  for a micro enterprise are 600 euros per year payable quaterly.  if you set up this way it would allow you to do everything listed above - it would be worth doing perhaps in 6 months time after you have enough clients asking you to do things other than those allowed. you have a limit on earnings which stands at 26k for services or 76k if you sell things (someone please correct me if i'm wrong).

our agency in the cher is called A.N.N.A.  check them out, you may have a simular place near you. 

 We have been to several business groups and the general consent within the agencys and in practise is that approximately 29% of all the revenue you bring in (gross) will go to you, the remaining 71% being taxes and outgoings.  This in practise has proved fairly accurate for most service businesses.  There is a VERY good reason that artisans are so expensive - its because they are TAXED steeply. in reality an average electrician - despite charging anything upto 40 euro per hour, receives roughly 10 euro of it. so going into business isnt to be taken lightly it will also take some time.  

I am pretty sure you could make a living, maybe not a vast fortune, but it is our experience that there are PLENTY of people who would love your assistance.  just look before you leap.  we have paid for our mistakes i hope i can help you avoid some!  Best wishes i hope it works out well for you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 weeks later...

perhaps i'm being really stupid here but... can someone, somewhere, explain the difference between the two figures (7.14 or 7.16 & 8.44) in simplistic terms...

am i right in thinking that employer x pays employee y at a gross rate of z...

then, using the system of of the special cheque book, employer pays certain deductions

at the end of the financial year, the employee declares income paid in this manner and, of course, pays his / her own taxes as calculated.

or... does it work another way?

any help in this veritable minefield gratefully recieved

neil (24)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote user="storeysinfrance"]

perhaps i'm being really stupid here but... can someone, somewhere, explain the difference between the two figures (7.14 or 7.16 & 8.44) in simplistic terms...

am i right in thinking that employer x pays employee y at a gross rate of z...

then, using the system of of the special cheque book, employer pays certain deductions

at the end of the financial year, the employee declares income paid in this manner and, of course, pays his / her own taxes as calculated.

or... does it work another way?

any help in this veritable minefield gratefully recieved

neil (24)

[/quote]

I gave a simulation on the other thread you posted on, which, I think, pretty much answers your questions:

For 30 hours at € 7.16 on a base forfaitaire:

  • you pay your employee €214.80
  • your employee receives €214.80 (and declares € 222.64 on his tax form)

  • you pay €181.14 in contributions
  • you can claim € 197.97 back on your tax form (there is a ceiling for this)
For 30 hours at € 7.16 on a salaire réel basis:

  • you pay your employee €214.80
  • your employee receives €214.80 (and declares € 222.64 on his tax form)

  • you pay €138.84 in contributions
  • you can claim € 176.82 back on your tax form (there is a ceiling for this)
Link to comment
Share on other sites

clair

thanks - yes... all that you've written makes perfect sense... nb: this is from the employee's perspective (and written on behalf of my partner who is the employee).

what we're still trying to get to the bottom of is:

a) is it correct for the employer to pay salary x by any means - cash / normal cheque or should it only be by using the special cheques... or could it be one method one month, another method in a different month?

if salary x can be paid in any manner - ie, cash / normal cheque, it logically follows that the employer (still) has to make the relevant contributions as if salary x was being paid using the special cheques - presumably a bit less time-efficient for the employer but... hey, thats the employer's problem.

b) what do the two figures - 7.16 & 8.44 refer to? The former is understood but, neither of us can fathom out what the 8.44 refers to - it is on the actualites sociales hebdomaires (7 sept 2007) document that i collected from social services last week and, so far as i was led to believe by them, refers to the mimimum hourly wage payable - its clearly noted there as salaire minimum (SMIC)... can anyone clarify this?

many thanks

neil (24)

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...