Where do I start?

[lynda777]

Help!

I have countless books on "How to set up a business in France".  I've looked on quite a few forums but I'm totally confused. There seems to be a lot of conflicting information, no hard facts and not much in English. Is there any definitive (English) guide that I can find out how I go about setting up a business, what's the best way to do it and exactly what I will need to pay and for what? 

I am hoping to set up as a qualified Equine Massage Therapist.  My turnover will probably be quite small, say less than 5,000 a year. 

Cheers

Lynda

P.S.  I am learning French but..........

[Lucinda]

Don't know where you are based Lynda but in our region we have English speakers at the local Chambre de Commerce and that's really the place to go to get some advice about how to set up your business. We are in the Dordogne so the need for English speakers is huge!!!

Lucinda

[Panda]

Hello

Your main issue Lynda I suspect will be the cotisations you will need to pay, at the moment cotisations start at around 3.5k regardless of income (search on here and you will find the actual numbers).  We are told that changes are on the way and that from some point next year charges will be based on a percentage of income but recently a friend has checked this out and has been told by the chamber of commerce that it is not happening in January and they are not sure when it will change.

I went to an english speaking accountant to set up my business and had them complete all of the forms, this for me worked well and was worth the cost.

Good luck with it

[lynda777]

Thank you.

I'll start with the Chambre de Commerce.

I'm in Tarn et Garonne so not far from the Dordorgne but not quite so many Brits here.  No complaints on that though.  :-p

[chessfou]

For "Equine Massage Therapist" it is almost sure that you will need to start at the Chambre des Métiers.

However, before you get even that far, if you are not currently employed, then you should start at ANPE. I have discovered that there are quite a few "hand-holding" organizations* that can help get through the red-tape (and point towards grants and low-cost loans). However, you have to arrive at them via ANPE before registering your enterprise anywhere.

*In Aveyron RILE & REGATE are extremely good and I think that Regate actually started life in Tarn et Garonne but your local ANPE should know what's what. The one in Rodez was brilliant (pity I'd already registered).

[lynda777]

Thank you for that, chessfou.  Thats a big help. 

Lynda

[mandycats]

hi. i dont like to be a party pooper but there are an AWFUL lot of equestrians out here hoping to make some cash, but sadly there mostly isnt the money.  from personal experience your market is extremely limited and unless you move very close to a large and prosperous city/town you will find little custom.  we have chosen to live in the depths of rural france and sadly our french allies are alittle basic when it comes to horse care (execpt the more pro people who only use qualifed veterinary therapists).  you may find that like my horse therapist he is a vet diversifiying as even they dont make tons of cash (totally opposite to uk).he traveled for an hour to get to me and obviously the return trip and saw 2 of my horses for 1.5 hours the total cost was 60 euros, not alot for a qualified vet!  you may find the odd english person but possibly not enough to fund the taxes you have no choise but to pay.  you will have to register at the chambre de metier which will set you back around 7 thousand euros per year.  there are some places that can help you waive some of the initial year costs but by year 3 you will be paying it all regardless of turnover.  there is no such thing as a hobby business in france.  i would seriously re consider your options here.  if you are dedicated VERY QUALIFIED and prepared to work near to full time you may make a profit if you can get the clients.  we have so many english horsey friends come and go, with various horse businesses, from livery to holiday, schooling to breeding.  france is over run and over serviced with gites and b&bs, look hard to find the right place and you may get lucky.  the french are very traditional people and although they embrace change they are naturally cautious people and change takes time, time you may not have if you have to pay 7K!  be aware that many of the bills are payable either immediately or within the first three months.  if you buget and think very hard about your income streems and how you can balance it, you can survive here and enjoy it.  i can thoroughly recommend the riding - its so quiet and no fly tipping!  i wish you all the best and i hope that your new life works out well for you. 

[Jazzer]

Hello

 

Interested in your reply. You mention cotisations around €3500. Do you also pay social charges on top?

[Panda]

Hello Jazzer

If that was question was aimed at me quoting 3.5k above then that includes social charges (social charges being a cotisation the way I see it)  but is just for year one, charges then increase dependent on income.

Panda

 

[pimpernel]

[quote user="lynda777"]

 

I am hoping to set up as a qualified Equine Massage Therapist.  My turnover will probably be quite small, say less than 5,000 a year. 

Cheers

Lynda

P.S.  I am learning French but..........

[/quote]

 

Lynda ,you've got to set your sights higher. If you expect your turnover ,not profit to be under 5000 a year ,it really won't be viable. To coin a phrase "It's not worth getting out of bed for"

[lynda777]

Cheers everyone for the doom and gloom.

Fortunately, I was born with a little more optimism. 

Facts are that I'm here in France.  I have a qualification which is unusual in France.  I'm in a horsey area with different types of competitors within striking distance.  I can only try and that is what I intend to do.

I'm told that there are new rules coming in for the lower earning self-employed.  Otherwise, I guess I will have to work a bit harder. 

Its funny I started this thread saying that I was getting lots of conflicting information.  So far, I might have to go to the Chambre de Commerce or I might have to go to the Chambre de Metiers, but I could try the APNS.  I will be paying anything from 3.5K to 7K or could be lower with new rules.  (Incidentally, that was a great website which calculated 3.2K year 1, 4.5K year 2 and 6K year 3.)

Thank you all for your help. 

Lynda (slightly the wiser and a little more determined) 

 

[Jazzer]

Many thanks Panda- I am number crunching. Trying to decide which route to go down if the E106 problem is not resolved. from the information you give it seems to be the best route for me with only the 1 gite.

 

Best wishes

 

Jazzer

[janemdc]

Hello.

From what you say  you will be classed as a small business. There are two things to consider and not to be confused, your trading status and your fiscal status.

Your trading status can be anything from Artisan (registration with Chambre de Metiers) to Market Trader (registration with Chambre de Commerce), Entreprise Individuel, SARL, EURL.

It sounds to me that you will be an Entreprise Individuel and you will register with the Chambre de Commerce - they will ask you to attend a day course before you can register your business which is very helpful.

You will pay your social security charges (cotisations) to URSSAF. Your local URSSAF would be well worth a visit. You will  trade as a non commercial - your profits will be traeted as BNC (benifices non commercial) whereas someone buying and selling would have profits know as BIC (benifices industriel et commercial).

Your fiscal status can be micro entreprise, Réel simple, Réel with TVA. As you will be a very small business, micro entreprise sounds the easiest option, no need for an accountant but the abbatement fiscal (the percentage which they assume you spend to run your business) is at 34%, so if your profession incurs lots of expenses, a réel regime could be more appropriate.

Your scenario, if you were to set up as an Entreprise Individuel with Micro Entreprise statut:

Annual Gross income                                     10 000 euros

Abbatement Fiscal 34%  =                               3 400  euros

BNC (profit) 66%           =                               6 600  euros

Cotisations (S.S) 42% of 6 600 euros               2 772  euros

Total profits/income on which you are taxed      3828 euros

Obviously you won't pay tax on that amount, but that is another story!

A good web site is: www.apce.com they have some information in English.

If you are currently resident in France and not working you should definately sign on as seeking work at the ANPE. This could entitle you to a 'dossier ACCRE' which would exhonerate you from social security charges for 12 months with a prolongation of a further 12 - 24 months if you are Micro regime and depending on your turnover.

Hope this helps a little, if you have any other questions, feel free to ask.

Jane

[lynda777]

Hi Jane

Yes, that is extremely helpful, thank you very much for taking the trouble.

What a minefield.

I have been told on another forum that because I keep more than 4 horses, I need to register as a farmer and pay cotisations for that - even though I do not currently breed them or have any intentions of selling any.  If that is the case, do you know if the cotisations for that will be in addition to any I pay under a micro enterprise for the massage and how would they calculate if I'm not earning anything as a farmer? 

Many thanks.

Lynda

 

[janemdc]

Hi Lynda.

You are perfectly entitled to keep horses without declaring yourself as

a farmer and it's a road I wouldn't advise you to go down (even if you

were able to as it's not easy!).

To qualify as a  farmer you would have to possess a certain amount of

land (14 hectares I think), breed or produce something and affiliate

with the MSA rather than URSSAF - a completely different set-up.

Good luck with your project - did I read that you are in Tarn & Garonne? - I'm in the Tarn near Castres.