Would this work or am I being stupid

[XLeblanc]

I am about to start a new contract whereby I will work in Qatar on an eight week on two week off basis. I will be paid through a UK limited company gross. As I am not in the Uk at all hardly and in France considerably less than the 183 days which is the French criteria for tax free status. I should not pay tax in either country. Some people will probably find this disgusting but it isn't a great deal of fun working and living in some of the places I do so there has to be some benefit.

My wife and two children live in France permanently and we are covered for health purposes up until January 2009 by virtue of an E106 form. We have Carte Vitalle's and are in the French system. Presumeably this will run out in January and we need to find some way of keeping our cover up in France.

I have as far as I can work out three choices:-

• Pay 8% (think that is the figure I have seen quoted) of my salary for health care, which would work out at nearly €13,000 per year which I feel is too much. This is only based on the start up hours for the project so this number would rise as the project progresses.

• Pay Private Medical Insurance which works out at about €5,000 per year which is fair I would say. My only problem is that France as a whole would not benefit from this and only the insurance company would.

• Third choice which is my favourite all though it may mot be legal. Start a business run for the sole purpose of providing my family with Healthcare in France. In that, possibly run a B&B which charges me say €7,000 euros to stay everytime I come home for two weeks. We simply declare this and pay the cottisations based around the figure we decide. Then money is paid to a French pension, national debt and health cover and my wife can use the rest for housekeeping.

Would this work or is there something that I have overlooked.

Cheers

Craig

[JMB]

My understanding is that in this context there two main things that define whether you are liable to pay full tax and cotisations in France and they are firstly the 183 day rule which I think doesn't apply to you and secondly the country where you have your primary residence - which looks to me like it is France. 

If I were you I would get some advice  from a tax professional or you could find yourself up to your neck in the doo doo.

[Clair]

Craig, as mentioned by John Martin, the French authorities regard your main residence as that where your family lives.

See here: http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/F752.xhtml and here: http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/F62.xhtml

[BJSLIV]

You will almost certainly be liable for French tax on your Arabian earnings as your Foyer Fiscal is in France. Unfortunately the French don't have separate taxation for husbands and wives so everything will go into the pot.

As far as health is concerned I assume that your were already resident in France in 2007 and therefore qualify for admission under the 8% system. The initial assessment will be based on the French tax returns you submitted for this last year. Your new contact earnings won't figure for a while yet.

[parsnips]

[quote user="BJSLIV"]

You will almost certainly be liable for French tax on your Arabian earnings as your Foyer Fiscal is in France. Unfortunately the French don't have separate taxation for husbands and wives so everything will go into the pot.

As far as health is concerned I assume that your were already resident in France in 2007 and therefore qualify for admission under the 8% system. The initial assessment will be based on the French tax returns you submitted for this last year. Your new contact earnings won't figure for a while yet.

[/quote]

Regarding health care, from the details given it would seem that entitlement to cover under CMU (8% system) will not be available. The private insurance seems the best option.Opening a genuine B&B might work, but a fake one wouldseem to border on fraud, and the french authorities have a law against "abus de droit" which they can use against people acting within the letter of the law but with the intention of avoiding tax or contributions.

As regards tax, there is a double taxation treaty between france and qatar (you can google it) which seems to me to make you taxable in france on your qatar earnings, but you would be advised to consult an expert in the matter.

  

[XLeblanc]

From what I am led to believe from people I have worked abroad with previously who worked for Schneider that if your earnings are earned abroad and that you are not resident in France for more than 183 days in the tax year then you are not taxed on your earnings. Just like it would be in England only England is 90 days. If there is any likely hood that I will be taxed in France then I will simply go back to being UK resident and fall under the UK ninety day rule it is that simple. I am not going to have anyone benfitting from me having to work in a dump if I can help it and why should I.

As far as the health cover goes then I will simply take out private insurance for us all. We could open a B&B as our house in Brittany was operating as a B&B prior to us buying it.

Cheers

[andyh4]

XBL

I do not think that you have understood the situation.  The fact that your family live in France means that you also are tax resident in France and the 183 day rule does not apply.  Going back (on your own) to the UK will not change that.  If your family are resident in France then you are also resident for tax even if you are not physically there.

 

Because of the double taxation treaty with Qatar it may well be that for income tax purposes you will not be taxed in France but for Health care that may be a wholly different kettle of fish.  As someone posted early on you should get professional advice because with the best will in the world I doubt that there are any French Qatar DTT experts on the forum.

[Panda]

[quote user="XLeblanc"]

. If there is any likely hood that I will be taxed in France then I will simply go back to being UK resident and fall under the UK ninety day rule it is that simple. I am not going to have anyone benfitting from me having to work in a dump if I can help it and why should I.

As far as the health cover goes then I will simply take out private insurance for us all. We could open a B&B as our house in Brittany was operating as a B&B prior to us buying it.

Cheers

[/quote]

Who do you think should foot the bill for your kids going to school here, that is what paying tax here will help to cover.  I don;t understand this train of thought at all, you are saying why should you pay yet your family are here and are receiving the benefit of the french system.

Am I missing something.

[Fi]

[quote user="Panda"][quote user="XLeblanc"]

. If there is any likely hood that I will be taxed in France then I will simply go back to being UK resident and fall under the UK ninety day rule it is that simple. I am not going to have anyone benfitting from me having to work in a dump if I can help it and why should I.

As far as the health cover goes then I will simply take out private insurance for us all. We could open a B&B as our house in Brittany was operating as a B&B prior to us buying it.

Cheers

[/quote]

Who do you think should foot the bill for your kids going to school here, that is what paying tax here will help to cover.  I don;t understand this train of thought at all, you are saying why should you pay yet your family are here and are receiving the benefit of the french system.

Am I missing something.

[/quote]

I'm with Panda on this one.  Presumably the OP chose to work in these 'dumps' and is well rewarded for doing so.  There are only two certainties in life - death and taxes (apologies for misquoting). 

We are about to move to France, and my husband will be working in different countries while the children and I live in France.  We are actively trying to find the best way to contribute, as we will be using schools, healthcare, roads etc etc etc.  We are not mad enough to want to give large chunks of our hard-earned cash away unnecessarily, but we do accept that we have a duty (such an old-fashioned term) to pay our way.

We found talking to an accountant (French) helpful!

Back to the packing ...

 

[Chezstevens]

I have been working in the UK and elsewhere for the 4 years that my family have been in France.  Put in a tax return every year - dual taxation and have not yet owed cash to France.  UK pays health for family in

France.  Would prefer to contribute to french tax direct but work for

UK Gov.

You work in c***py areas for acceptable recompense - I have been to same areas and worked alongside contractors.  If family was with you surely company picks up tab so ''perhaps'' they will do the same for family staying in France - after all they are saving a fortune not having schools, healthcare and housing.  If you are contracted then I presume company has paid market value for your services so you will need to spend some of the cash to contribute to your adopted country.  After all nobody wants to sponge off the state do they?

[AnOther]

Are we missing a fundamental point here ?

The whole point of dual tax agreements is to ensure that tax is not paid twice so why would France have a treaty with a country like Qatar which levies no personal income tax ?

Whilst I have not researched the subject it seems eminently logical to me that if there is no taxation in the country where the money is earned then it must fall due for payment in France.

[BJSLIV]

There certainly is an agreement, but unsurprisingly its main concern is about the application of wealth tax! I seems to be silent as regards income taxes, because as Ernie has noted it don't exist over there.

As someone suggested earlier the OP will have to see a very good international accountant. A three way  tax situation Gulf, UK, and France is never going to be simple.

It does cross my mind that if he is going to be working in the Gulf, spending non working time clocking up residence in the UK, then perhaps his wife might consider divorce as a simpler option......

 

[AnOther]

[quote user="BJSLIV"]perhaps his wife might consider divorce as a simpler option...... [/quote]Funnily enough although I now forget the exact circumstances as it was a good many years ago, I did once suggest this to 'er indoors as a valid and workable solution to a particular situation but strangely it met with an icy response.

Women can be so impractical sometimes don't you find [blink] [:D]

[XLeblanc]

Thanks all the original post did not ask about tax but cottisations. I now realise that there is also a tax implications which need to be considered.