Notaire - extra "negotiation" fee

[Catalpa]

We're considering the purchase of a nearby stable - ie, not a house. We now have a copy of the draft compromis and on it is a paragraph stating that the buyer (us) will pay the Notaire 1500 euros as a negotiation fee.

We bought our house here 6 years ago and we didn't have any extras to pay then - purchase price plus the Notaire's (state) fees. This 1500€ is not part of those fees, it is an extra.

Is this normal nowadays? And if so, does the purchaser always pay? Or, as the vendor accepted a low offer from us, are they trying to get us to pay something they would usually cover?

As ever, info and / or opinions happily received. [:)]

[hastobe]

Is the notaire the agent for the property - if so it could be their

agent's fee?  We bought through a notaire and that's how the

notaire immobilier fee was described in our compromis.

If it is the agent's fee then - yes - buyer would usually pay.

Kathie

[Catalpa]

Thanks for that info, Kathie. Yes, he's managing the sale for the vendors. Is 5% a normal fee for a Notaire to charge?

[hastobe]

We paid 3.0% of the net vendor price but it should have been 3.5 % (we

negotiated a fee reduction [;-)]).  5% does seem a little high but maybe its one of those

sliding scale fees  - if your buying a stable it may be that there

is a de-minimis fee so the percentage seems high.  I'm just

looking for the notaire fee web site link to see...

Kathie

[hastobe]

...sorry I've searched and can only find calculations and breakdown of

the fees for the conveyancing not for acting as agent.  Maybe

someone else knows how they are calculated?

Kathie

[Catalpa]

Thank you for checking [:)] We were concerned because the total price quoted on the draft was as we were expecting... but further on in the document the wording suggested that the extra 5% was on top of the total price. Having added substantially to France Telecom's profits in the last 6 hours, we think we've established that the 5% is included within the total price so it is a separate part of the total price but not an extra. And thank you, yes, we will attempt to get it reduced.

It's been an interesting day. We looked at this building and field about 3 weeks ago, thought about it, put in a considered offer (ie lower [:)]) a few days later and got on with other things while we waited to hear. We got a phone call from the Notaire just before lunch today saying could we go in tomorrow at midday and sign the Compromis. We were a bit startled. "Er... they accepted our offer then???" He seemed surprised too when we asked for a copy of the Compromis in advance. [8-)] We got that mid-afternoon hence several mildly panicked questions on the forums. So thank you for helping me piece together our strategy for tomorrow. [:-))]

[Russethouse]

 I think TU has posted in the past that even buying a cheap piece of land can be 'expensive' because of the notaires/legal fees involved....might be worth doing a search

Good Luck with it

 

[Will]

Notaire fees are  (for the present at least) fixed by the government. The 'negotiation fee' (the equivalent to an estate agent's commission) is 5% on cheap properties, reducing to 2.5% on more expensive buys - I think these rates are still current, but they may, possibly, have changed. These are subject to 19.6% TVA, which is how the 2.5% can appear to be more like 3%. Because the fees are fixed, there should be little scope for negotiation, but it is probably worth asking anyway. The negotiation fees are often included in the quoted asking price, but may be added on afterwards. If the price is shown as NV (net vendeur) then fees are not included.

Many people think that by buying through a notaire they avoid paying agency fees. They do, but pay the usually lower notaires' negotiation fees instead, so the saving is somewhat less than usually thought.

[hastobe]

Although the fees are fixed, the scale rates fix the maximum amount they can charge. You can still negotiate downwards - though as Will says, there is less scope as the initial fee is lower. We had another buyer interested in the house we are buying who was prepared to offer more than the asking price.  The notaire agreed to reduce his fee so that the vendor received the higher net vendor price but we still paid the original advertised FAI price. 

With regard to the difference between agents fees and notaire immobilier fees, our house was also advertised with another (non notaire) agent so we have a direct comparison.  Even after paying TVA on the notaire immobilier fees the difference was nearly 8,000 euro - which increased to 9,000 euro with the negotiated reduction (245,000 euro net vendor price).  So it's definitely worth trying to buy through a notaire.  We have also received an excellent service.  As I mentioned in another post, the notaires office tried to help out with our insurance problem (acting as a 'go between' between the insurance company, french bank and our doctors in the UK) , they are arranging the utilities etc for us, they have offered advice re settling in, help they even offered to help us with our first set of tax returns etc.  We have been very, very pleased with the service we have received.

The above doesn't add much to your situation Catalpa, but I wanted to mention it in case anyone else was worried about using a notaire.

Kathie