Just need some straight answers

[lou_the_expat]

Hi all -

I may be moving to France (US citizen) to go work for a French firm for two years prior to them relocating me back to the US to possibly start a US division for them.

I've been asked to provide them what my "net" salary requirements are; from there they would back calculate what my gross would be. According to them this is easier due to taxes, etc. I would participate in the national health and retirement system (which I would get back when I leave).

I know what my "net" requirements are here in the US (I live in Washington, DC) but have no idea what my costs of living would be in France (Nantes, in particular).

I currently earn $130K a year in the US and the job responsibilities are in line with what a similar position in the US would be. While in Nantes I would need to:

- Rent a house or apartment (2-3 bedrooms)

- Pay utilities (phones, power, etc.)

- Buy or lease a car (would want an equivalent US $30K car)

- Support my wife most likely in the near term

- Max out my retirement savings (as I do here in the US, at $14K per year)

- Buy food

I have no idea what these basics are. I'm finding apartments in Nantes anywhere from E400 - 600/month. But what can I expect to pay for food on a weekly basis (just two of us). How comparable are these costs to those in the US?

From my net will there be other taxes I have to pay too? I've been unlucky in finding good resources on these basics.

Thanks!

...lou

[Quillan]

I think what they are saying is what is your net in the US i.e. what is left out of the $130k a year after you have paid your tax but before you pay any rental, loans, bills etc. I would look on the social charges that you will get back as your pension pot money as it is likely to be quite high. Don't forget they may ask to see a typical payslip/salary slip or whatever you call it in the States. I guess you could rent out your house/apartment in the US to offset your rental in France. Probably sell the car in the US and buy another on your return. To be honest there are so many variants its difficult to give definitive answers.

[lou_the_expat]

Thanks Quillan - I know it's a bit open ended.

To clarify, in a France vs. US what would be a large expense that might hit an American while there that they may have been unprepared for.

I know gasoline is high, but what about standard utilities for an apartment (gas/elec/water)? Are French prices higher or lower? What I'm finding is that for rentals themselves in general the price is lower.

Are autos sold at the list price or are their extraneous taxes put on at the time of purchase? Can you even lease a car in France? Are there annual taxes on auto ownership?

In summary, I guess what I'm looking for are these types of comparisons: the "if I knew then what I know now" stuff.

Thanks!

...lou

[Anton Redman]

I would strongly recommend

http://www.americansintoulouse.com/index.php

For background at least. You can lease a car and cars are expensive versus the US but list price should be on the road tax paid in France. My experience of US costs and taxes is simply too out of date to be any use.

[Quillan]

[quote user="lou_the_expat"]Thanks Quillan - I know it's a bit open ended. To clarify, in a France vs. US what would be a large expense that might hit an American while there that they may have been unprepared for. I know gasoline is high, but what about standard utilities for an apartment (gas/elec/water)? Are French prices higher or lower? What I'm finding is that for rentals themselves in general the price is lower. Are autos sold at the list price or are their extraneous taxes put on at the time of purchase? Can you even lease a car in France? Are there annual taxes on auto ownership? In summary, I guess what I'm looking for are these types of comparisons: the "if I knew then what I know now" stuff. Thanks! ...lou[/quote]

Electricity Tariffs - HERE

Gas - We don't have town gas but the main supplier is GDF I believe the prices vary per town so this is for my nearest town that has gas.

Water - Judging by some stuff I have read in another part for the forum it can vary a lot. We pay 52 cents per cubic metre, down the road by about 4km they pay 80 cents.

Leasing a French Car - HERE and HERE although they are short terms leases you could contact them and see how you get on.

There are no annual tax's on cars in France, the insurance for all risk will be about 400 Euros a year as an average although there may be deals to be had.

Its difficult to get a deal on cars although currently some manufactures are offering big discounts because of the current economic climate the problems with the Auto industry in general. I went past a billboard the other day which said 20% of a particular car. Also cars do not drop in price as much as they do in the UK where after about 2 years they are half their new price. You can get list prices from the Citroen, Renault and Peugeot websites.

Most cars are diesel here although you can buy petrol versions, Diesel is about 96 cents a litre and unleaded about 1.20 Euros but it does go up and down and it is regional. If I drive about 60km I can buy cheaper. Oh and automatics are very rare and are special order normally. Most Europeans drive manual gear shift cars.

Telephones - French Telecom or as it is now called Orange (www.orange.fr). There are different companies you can go to but I can tell you I pay just under 50 Euros a month for combined Internet, phone and TV which includes free calls in France and most other countries including the US. There are other deals around that are cheaper with less options.

You may have to pay two tax's annually on your house and apartment, Tax Habitation and Tax Froncier (my spelling may be wrong). I can't give you a price as they vary a lot, its something you ask about when you are looking at a particular property.

TV Licence - about 170 Euros a year I think, I can't remember but it is included in the above tax's.

That's about it really although I am sure others can give you some figures.

[Quillan]

I just had a look at Antons link which also reminded me that there is an excellent book called Sixty Million Frenchmen Can't be Wrong by Jean-Benoit Nadeau and Julie Barlow ISBN 1-86105-715-6 well worth a read and some of it is very funny.

[lou_the_expat]

Quillan & Antons -

Many, many thanks for the links. This is the information I've been trying to find and is very helpful.

Cheers,

Lou

[Pierre ZFP]

Hi Lou

Just a thought that may be worth considering, and you would have to take proffessional advice re tax position in USA and France but......

I had a great job in Zurich once where part of the deal was accommodation provided.  As I was on secondment, this did not come out of my taxable income but was separate.  Maybe this kind of arrangement is possible for you?  I know there are complex rules for US citizens being taxed in US on world-wide income hence the need for expert advice.  Also I was paid a generous per-dium and return flights back to the UK.  All tax free and with the knowledge/approval of the Swiss tax authorities I might add. 

Have you factored in return flights to USA during your stay for holidays etc? And initial move out here?  It could be a lot of excess baggage [:-))]

As I say, just thoughts from one migrant worker to another.

BTW you might want to try sixt.com for car leasing.  They don't always have all the long-term deals on their website but are very flexible if you talk to them and explain what you want.