Happy tales

[blossom]

    Anybody got any?

We've made our decision...We're moving to France.  Handed in my notice here and will probably rent out our house in the UK and rent somewhere in France for a while to see how we get on.

Afte a day or two on the forum you can all consider my rose tinted speccies removed.  Smashed to bits on the floor, with a heelgrind for good measure :).

My french is nigh on good enough to work and I am living in hope that I will find a job.

Do any of you have any good stories?  Anybody care to share a tale of how they batted their CV around to all and sundry, followed up with calls and finally got offered a job that they are happy with?  ie.  Not just picking fruit or cleaning hotels.

I've read all the bad stories and I know that the grass isn't greener, just different, but it would be nice to know that at least SOMEBODY found a job in france? 

Am considering the taking a CELTA qualification.  I've seen a couple of posts about this but not many informative replies.  Would I be able to get a job in a language school teaching English to adults?  Why can't I just stick notices up and advertise for people?   I know I'm being naive, but I have to start somewhere...:)

Thanks very much for all your advice so far!

[Afy]

Blossom

What is CELTA?

What area are you working in? If it is IT and you are interested in Consulting, please drop me a copy of you CV and I can pass it on to a few recruiters et al I know. I cant promise anything but can try.

[Turnip]

I asked a question relating to TEFL?CELTA but no one seems to have any know, however a search revealed these links (I should have carried out a search first - I know[;-)]):

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/search/SearchResults.aspx?q=tefl&f=&u=

[TheVicar]

Blossom

As the partner of a newly qualified TEFL teacher , I could only suggest

you search more on the internet. It is our experience that (not

surprpisingly) the organisations that will happily take your money will

tell you that English teachers are in much demand. I would say that it

will be difficult to find full-time work in this subject. Try inputting

TEFL and France into your search engine and look around some more. Also

try going to anpe.fr (the French employment web-site) , punch 'anglais'

into the keyword section and search all of France. These should give

you a more realisitic view. I would say that maternal English speakers

are in better demand than French English teachers as the standard of

English teaching here is at times quite poor, but it will also be

important to speak French to a good standard in order to convey your

message. We have 3 children and, having seen their English lessons in

French schools, can personally say that they do not understand

sometimes. My partner currently helps a French teacher at English

classes and sometimes has arguments with her as the French teacher

insists that English is spoken a certain way, when we obviously know

better.  The French have a need for better quality teachers than

are currently available outside of the big cities, but you will need to

weigh up wether you move to a city and have more competition, or move

into a more rural area, where you may well struggle to find the hours

you want/need.

Good luck.

[tristanspeed]

My wife was an english teacher in the UK and got a job in Lyon teaching adults english in less than a week. She's never been well paid though- just about the minimum wage most of the time. The Chambre de Commerce is the best employer for english teachers in terms of pay around here, but you won't get a decent contract I wouldn't expect. Try searching 'anglais' on job websites to find ads for 'bilingual' jobs. If you're near a city you could do voice work - both my wife and I do voiceovers every now and then. It's not much but it does give you a few hundred euros here and there. Also try the universities because some of them teach subjects other than english in english. Translation and proofreading has also been a small earner for us. You could always dabble in journalism for UK mags, although they have plenty of offers most of the time. Whatever you do it'll be hard to get a decent contract - a CDI (full time, permanent, open ended). But you could get a CDD (fixed term contract).

Oh yeah, final bit of advice, don't take no for an answer the first time. No is often the default 'can't be asked' answer, not the real answer. Be persistent and good luck!

[mint]

i do know about tefl because i have the qualification.  you will need a first degree, usually, as it is a post graduate course.  however, some universities will accept students with other relevant experience, for example in business or, as in your case, IT.

i don't know about employment in france, however, because i have no intention of seeking work and therefore have not looked into it.

when i was in spain, however, they were offering me jobs left, right and centre. 

the course itself (for the certificate and not the diploma) takes 4 weeks.  it was very intensive but SUCH fun.  i had never had to dredge so much knowledge about english grammar from my distant childhood memory as i did in those 4 weeks.

if you are going to do the course, best find one quickly as, in some parts of the country, they are very over-subscribed

[Dick Smith]

[quote user="Afy"]

Blossom

What is CELTA?

What area are you working in? If it is IT and you are interested in Consulting, please drop me a copy of you CV and I can pass it on to a few recruiters et al I know. I cant promise anything but can try.

[/quote]

Certificate in English Language Teaching to Adults

[RumziGal]

[quote user="tristanspeed"]

The Chambre de Commerce is the best employer for english teachers in terms of pay around here, but you won't get a decent contract I wouldn't expect. If you're near a city you could do voice work - both my wife and I do voiceovers every now and then. It's not much but it does give you a few hundred euros here and there.  Translation and proofreading has also been a small earner for us. You could always dabble in journalism for UK mags, although they have plenty of offers most of the time. Whatever you do it'll be hard to get a decent contract - a CDI (full time, permanent, open ended). But you could get a CDD (fixed term contract).

[/quote]

Presumably you have to register as a business to do all these little bits of work?   Do the little bits add up to enough to pay all the charges?

 

[Cerise]

blossom - it is hard to find work in France - but not impossible.  However, you may have to accept something you wouldn't have thought of doing in the Uk to get your French up to an acceptable standard.  All those people I know who do translations or English teaching do it alongside something else - don't know anyone who makes a living at it. 

You wanted a cheerful story though, so will tell you that my husband - who spoke no French on arrival - spent 3 years renovating our house and learning French and then was offered a job re-training as an electrician and plumber (he was a car salesman running a Honda dealership in UK).  His employer is French, installed our central heating and was so impressed by the work he had done on our house that when he was looking for someone else to join him he phoned and asked if he would like the job  He has a CDI and is 2 years into his training.  We joke that he is the oldest apprentice in the world - 44 when he started - but after 3 years he could legally start his own business if he wanted to.  The wages are not fantastic, but it does give us a reglar income and he enjoys it very much.  We are fortunate to have a retired French engineer next door who has been very patient and helped him with the theory, which if he were younger he would be doing at college.

I also know a younger lady who was dumped in France by her husband (literally - he left her here with the kids and disappeared) and she has managed to get various jobs through the ANPE and is now re-training as a plasterer!  That despite very poor French.

Try not to be too dispirited by the forum.  It is better to see the reality and still want to come than to find your pretty pink bubble bursting when you are in a foreign land without money or job.

Good luck

Maggi

[tristanspeed]

In answer to your question, no I haven't registered as a business. The voice work is done with what's known as a "note d'honoraires' - don't ask me how it works because I don-t know! They just send me a personal cheque and I've asked the tax people and they say it's fine until you really start earning well into 4 figures. All in all I'm only earning a thousand  or so euros a year from it at absolute best. I've not really made much effort, it's just work that comes my way, as I've already got a full time job and a CDI. The charges for setting up your own business seem quite high don't they? I'm sure someone on the forum can tell you about it. I have some french chums who run a communications agency and they;ve offered to run some things through their firm if I need to. I actually lost out on a translation contract with a very very big interantional retail group because I didn;t have the right registration numbers etc.

[Ejc]

I think that alot of what you can do /earn is down to your qualifications   if they're portable and depending on the type of industry you can get work and have a reasonable income. Checkout if there are any large multi national companies near where you're planning to be. and possibly aproach them up front.

Good luck with the move

[RumziGal]

[quote user="tristanspeed"]

In answer to your question, no I haven't registered as a business. The voice work is done with what's known as a "note d'honoraires' - don't ask me how it works because I don-t know! They just send me a personal cheque and I've asked the tax people and they say it's fine until you really start earning well into 4 figures. [/quote]

Thank you for your reply.  I really wish I understood all this!   I had the chance of a nice bit of non-technical translation work a while back, and the Profession Liberale peeps said quite categorically that it's completely illegal to earn even one centime without being registered as a business (for things like translation, that is - obviously you could have a normal contract with an employer, or cheques d'emploi for other things).

Does anyone know what a note d'honoraires is?

[Will]

I Googled it and a couple of things came up - http://www.freelance-info.fr/forum/freelance_645.html and http://www.webmaster-hub.com/lofiversion/index.php/t20512.html.

Both suggest that in order to use the note (a sort of simpler invoice) you need to be registered with a Siret number.

[tristanspeed]

It's weird isn't it? As soon as you start asking around with officialdom you get conflicting information, at least that's what we've found. The voiceover firms, of which I've worked for tfour, have never had any bother send me a cheque in return for a simple invoice-type-thing. Two bike companies also just sent me personal cheques. But the big firm I mentioned wouldn't touch it. Those forums you linked to seem confused too eh? The local cave cooperative paid me in wine - does that count? As Viv Stanshall wrote, "If I had all the money I'd spent on drink, I'd spend it on drink"...

[Will]

No it's not just you, it's very common, particularly in France. I recall several happy mornings spent in French tax offices getting differing answers until somebody came up with a valid one. Half the trouble seems to be that officials, again particularly French ones, do not like to admit they don't know something, so rather than look it up or ask somebody else they will make up an answer (it doesn't matter, it's only the stoopid English after all...) Mind you, the valid answers, which invariably did come out of a book, involved long searches and several apparently contradictory solutions until one came up that everybody was happy with. It caused me to make up my first rule of French bureaucracy - 'for every directive, there is an equal and opposite guideline'.

Glad to see we have another Rawlinson End fan. I previously used your quote as my signature, it's about time I changed the current one for one of VS's many other memorable phrases. When I first started using his quotes I received a message from another forum member who remembered Stanshall as an art student.

[Danny]

Hi Blossom,

You seem to have approached this sensibly, in that you are keeping your options open and are optimistic. If you have a decent level of french that is your first hurdle over with. After that, it's just finding out how the system works for your line of work in the area you are moving to. I have no information on teaching languages I'm afraid, but I trained as a musician and thought when we came over that I would be able to pick up lots of private music students, no problem. I ended up never even advertising because to set up as a private teacher would have cost a fortune in cotisations and most people go to the local 'ecole de musique' for music lessons. I could have got a few pupils who were unhappy with the local teacher, but not at the rate I would need to charge (we are in a rural area). My husband had already set up his business from home (flute repairer) and while this business builds up (it's specialised I know, but getting there) we can't afford to pay two lots of charges for us both to be registered. I would not have been happy taking on teaching full time without being registered. Finding work within the local schools is tricky if you have no experience in France, but I imagine if you are near a largeish town and wish to teach english then there are a lot more options as a language teacher, so contact them all. Personal contacts and recommendations go a very long way here so get socialising as much as possible!

If you move near a large town work will be easier to find. We live near Cahors in 46 and last August I applied to all our local supermarkets as a cashier - despite repeated calls there are apparently still no vacancies. I registered with ANPE and ASSEDIC and was allocated a personal advisor who told me I was likely to get employed as a waitress or barmaid  but not much else as it's tricky finding work if you are not a local, let alone if you're not french. Working nights was not ideal as we have a young son but in the end I got a CDI job via ANPE working in the shop of a local service station. I am happy there and we have a steady (very small!) income whilst my husband's business builds. I am being paid to speak french all day and am lucky enough to work 10 mins from home. It suits us well and I feel I am lucky to have this work.

If you are young and ambitious this is a tough country to move to but if you want a different lifestyle and can manage on the lower income from a relatively stress-free job then it can be done.

The very best of luck,

Jane

[Etoile]

Hello, a bit of an old thread this, I know. But I notice you refer to voice-over work and I am looking to get into this work in France myself, being located in the Charente Maritime but able to travel. Do you provide an English or a French voice? Any pointers would be most welcome. Kind regards, Gerard Saunders