Daft Doctor Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Hi, I am close to pulling the last of my few remaining hairs out with RSI and Harmonie Mutuelle (formerly Mutuelle Existence)! We have been in France for 9 months now and my wife has been an AE for 8 months of that. Still no Carte Vitale. Having sent RSI the photocopy of her passport (three times), certified translation of her birth certificate (twice), and certified translation of marriage certificate, they are now asking for a carte de séjour or vignette OF11 and a certified translation of birth certificate (AGAIN!!). My understanding is that as an EU citizen there is no requirement to have either carte de séjour or OF11 (according to the vos-droits.service.fr website it is for non-EU residents), but am I correct?I have never come across such a completely useless and inefficient organisation as RSI, even taking into account that this is France. I wouldn't bet a penny that we'll have the Carte Vitale by the time our first year in france is up, its unbelievable (if you didn't know it's true!) [8-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Cheer up, at least you haven't got to the point yet where RSI start asking you for totally unrealistic sums of money: probably and completely arbitrarily something like five times what you could expect to earn, to the point that they help themselves to whatever you've got in your bank and leave you destitute. And you haven't had to fend off weekly visits from the Huissier on the back of you not having the money to pay what you don't owe!What's a bit of repeat paperwork between friends? Until they've worked you up into such a frenzy that your health starts to suffer, the CV won't be a problem!(BTW I didn't make the above up. Or even exaggerate it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomoss Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Oh how glad I am I never worked in France (at least not officially).I thought the stupidity incompetence ignorance and obstinacy of the bureaucracy was an Algerian trait when I worked there.I didn't realise they had had a master class from the French[:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 I think it dates from the Romans and is a common heritage in Latin countries and those colonised by them.It is similar in Romania with the addition of a layer of ex-communist obduracy thown in for good measure.To go back to DD's question:You are right. You wife has no need of a carte de séjour. You need to find the exact text stating this, but be crafty in how you bring it to the' attention of the RSI. Direct confrontation can be counter-productive. Show them the 'texte' and pretend that you are a daft Englishman who is not sure that he has properly understood. Ask to speak to someone who speaks English etc (I do this when I am not getting my way, even though I may understand perfectly well). Anything to push past the barrier.This may help 'Ils ne sont pas tenus de détenir un titre de séjour. S'ils en font la demande, il leur est délivré un titre de séjour' from the link above, which is the law underpinning this sitehttp://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/F2651.xhtmlTo be clear the vosdroits site is correct, but isfor information.The legifrance link quotes the actual law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daft Doctor Posted January 26, 2013 Author Share Posted January 26, 2013 Thanks Norman, it beggars belief that such a straightforward fact that EU citizens do not need a carte de séjour, visa, vignette OF11 or whatever to live legitimately in France escapes an organisation/employee who deals with this sort of thing on what must be at least a not infrequent basis. It may be that as Harmonie Mutuelle is a new organisation, formed by the merger of 4 health organisations, that they aren't fully up to speed and may not know from the RSI/Mutuelle Existence records that Mrs DD is an EU national. Lets see how it goes, I've sent copy passport, and original birth and marriage certificates, each accompanied by traduction assermentée. I to be honest simply stated in the letter that as an EU national resident in France Mrs DD was not required to have the CdeS or OF11. If they get shirty about it I will write again quoting the text from the vosdroits website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Just a thought. You haven't used the word 'étranger' at any point in your communications with them have you?That implies 'foreigner' in the sense of Arab/African etc to the average French official.see herehttp://vosdroits.service-public.fr/N110.xhtmlIt is better to use the phrase 'citoyen européen'You will notice on that page the term étranger isn't used, which rather proves my point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomoss Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Just a thought. In Spain there is an official channel for complaints about bureaucratic obstruction when it has no legal grounds. I wonder whether such a thing exists in France?When we first moved to Spain we dreaded doing such simple things as collecting a parcel from the Post Office customs office, as the "fijo" ("fixed one" - someone who has a government job and can't be fired) in charge used to leave his office when a foreigner came in to claim a parcel, and no-one in there had the nerve to make a decision without his instructions, so we had to return every few days until he felt like dealing with it. No, really, I'm not making it up.Much later, after I sold our business, having left everything to our accountant for years, I was making an enquiry in the main tax office, and was amazed at the contrast in the way I was being treated compared with 20 years previously. The people there seemed to actually listen to what I was saying, and to be giving helpful replies. (Maybe because I was older and meaner and spoke better spanish [:D])I was quite surprised to hear a spanish person raising their voice to threaten the person who was behind the counter with "bureaucratic obstruction".I forget the actual term used, but, when this was suggested, the official concerned was really upset that such an allegation was being made, and took it really seriously, so the impression I got was that a real effort was being made to stop just the kind of treatment that DD is experiencing.Of course, there is a difference between obstruction and incompetence. It's hard to find good help these days, on dit [:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 You have got the form saying that you are entitled to health care in France haven't you....... that attestation that is so important???????I realise that the CV is very handy, but well over half my time in France was sans a CV and we managed perfectly well..........what is the problem? You just pay for your stuff and send the paperwork in and get reimbursed, c'est tout. They'll issue one eventually, or not, sometimes they get snotty and delay and delay. As long as your reimbursements are made within 6 weeks, don't worry......... yes it could take that long in the olde days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomoss Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 My wife just said the verb used in spanish to describe bureaucratic obstruction is "molestar" = "gener" en français, but I think the connotation is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NormanH Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 In France rather than complaining about them the boot is on the other foot they are well protected by the notion of "outrage" (pronounced oootrage, but in my opinion an outrageous idea in the English sense if the word) Constituent un outrage puni de 7 500 euros d'amende les paroles, gestes ou menaces, les écrits ou images de toute nature non rendus publics ou l'envoi d'objets quelconques adressés à une personne chargée d'une mission de service public, dans l'exercice ou à l'occasion de l'exercice de sa mission, et de nature à porter atteinte à sa dignité ou au respect dû à la fonction dont elle est investie. Lorsqu'il est adressé à une personne dépositaire de l'autorité publique, l'outrage est puni de six mois d'emprisonnement et de 7 500 euros d'amende. Lorsqu'il est commis en réunion, l'outrage prévu au premier alinéa est puni de six mois d'emprisonnement et de 7 500 euros d'amende, et l'outrage prévu au deuxième alinéa est puni d'un an d'emprisonnement et de 15 000 euros d'amendeL'article 433-5 du Code pénal lIt is not an empty threat. A friend of mine, patronne of a café was taken to court three weeks ago by one of the Police Municiple (the equivalent of traffic wardens for those of us in towns) because she called him a few choice names when he gave her a ticket in unreasonable circumstancesThe sort of officials who get this protection are:: instituteur, chauffeur de bus, sapeur-pompier, facteur, agent de surveillance de la voie publique agents assermentés de la SNCFSo you have to be careful whom you choose to get annoyed with...https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outrage_%C3%A0_agent_public_en_France Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idun Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 I have looked at that little lot a few times NH and still do not understand why nothing is said about the officials not fulfilling the 'mission' they have had set.I know what I do about them, but the truth is that they can make other people's lives a misery and yet apparently joe public can not vent their frustration, which is natural, especially when faced with gross incompetence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomoss Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 Thanks for that, Norman.It reads like it was written by Robespierre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomoss Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 [quote user="NormanH"]In France rather than complaining about them the boot is on the other foot they are well protected by the notion of "outrage" (pronounced oootrage, but in my opinion an outrageous idea in the English sense if the word) ........................................It is not an empty threat. A friend of mine, patronne of a café was taken to court three weeks ago by one of the Police Municiple (the equivalent of traffic wardens for those of us in towns) because she called him a few choice names when he gave her a ticket in unreasonable circumstancesThe sort of officials who get this protection are:: instituteur, chauffeur de bus, sapeur-pompier, facteur, agent de surveillance de la voie publique agents assermentés de la SNCFSo you have to be careful whom you choose to get annoyed with...https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outrage_%C3%A0_agent_public_en_France[/quote] Seems to explain why so many "public servants" ([:D][:D]) treat the public with contempt.In Spain, on the other hand, it's not long since they were shooting or stringing up hated functionaries, along with the oppressive upper crust and priesthood.Still within living memory for some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappicenno Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I had a supporting health insurance coverage coverage and I found myself in some troubble. The need to stop the plan pressed me to notify me and I have study the conditions of the Chatel Act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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