Théière Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 Likewise idun, there is statute law, as known and can be verified and quoted, Pickles is rather good at that and Norman not far behind. Then there is forum law which usually means someone thought their neighbours cousins half sisters friend once said blah blah. Breaking a law results in going to court irrespective of having a chimney fire or not, unenforceable and not so far verified and jsdorset should find out before leaving his client base in the UK for the few remaining expats or learn french like a native and completely in trench themselves in the French life in order to gain sufficient business to keep an income going.When we changed insurer last year I made enquiries about this and was told from the insurer that the chimney must be swept and the date noted but it was not obligatory or law to use a ramoneur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 [url]http://ramonage.comprendrechoisir.com/comprendre/reglementation-ramonage[/url]Unless I'm reading this wrongly, the "law" that exists is a Prefectoral/police law and not something that's in the Code Civil. All the insurance sites also speak of it in these terms, this link says that there's no fine or sanction, others talk of a fine of just over €400. Similarly, there's much talk in the links I've looked at about the need for getting in a professional, as they can provide a certificate if you have a chimney fire, but there's nothing to say it's an obligation to use one. I've checked out a few French forums, and they all say that yes, it's obligatory...but even among the french there's a lot of discussion as to whether this means a professional MUST be used, or whether it's OK to do it yourself. Here's one example:[url]http://droit-finances.commentcamarche.net/forum/affich-4577858-ramonage-obligatoire[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Good work Betty, Whilst I am sure as in the case of most professionals they have a superior range of equipment and countless hours more experience, my humble chimney brush did an excellent job and I have a borescope camera (mainly for my pool work) but still I used that to check the inside of the flue pipe and it was clean enough to prevent a chimney fire. I just can't imagine the police taking people in to give them a stiff talking to about the state of their chimneys so unless proven otherwise I consider the matter Urban legend. The Government should they be interested in such trivia even in France could enforce a little ticket like that for car insurance to be displayed outside each house so the crack squad of chimney police could send the boys round to anyone who dares not to have an obligatory ramoneur visit. [:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Bit like the pool fencing/alarm laws, Theiere. And I'm not saying that in a "nasty" way, but same merde, different pelle. Ours IS fenced, aux normes, but I don't know a single other person with a pool that is. In the 10 years since that legislation came in, I've yet to hear of anyone being as much as rapped on the knuckles for not complying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTrash Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Surely the point is, if you have a certificate from a registered sweep then your back is well and truly covered. If there is any question of the chimney not having been swept properly, that is between the insurers and the sweep, not you, and the insurers are unlikely to quibble. Whereas if you have no certificate, they might be more likely to quibble.I see the pool thing slightly differently - if a kid drowns and you have not met the legislation, you are up **** creek without a paddle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 I totally agree. The point I was making was that it's another piece of legislation that's out there, but not policed.As for the chimney thing, one common theme in many of the sites I looked at is the somewhat obvious one that if you clean your chimney properly and regularly, it's highly unlikely you will ever have a chimney fire. As a result, you won't ever need to quibble with your insurance company, nor will the presence or absence of a certificate ever enter into play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTrash Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 The next question is - why should the state police everything? The laws are in place to tell the nation what they need to do to keep themselves safe. The state has done its share by making the laws, now the people have to do their share by obeying it. It's in their own interests. Obviously there will alway be people who don't, but the only alternative is a nanny state that not only tells people what to do but goes round making sure they've done it all, and once you starts going down that road, people start feeling less and less responsible for anything and relying more and more on the state until they expect it to wipe their noses for them. Do we really want that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catalpa Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 [quote user="EuroTrash"]...and once you starts going down that road, people start feeling less and less responsible for anything and relying more and more on the state until they expect it to wipe their noses for them. Do we really want that?[/quote]I think that is exactly what France has got. People who reckon the UK is a nanny state have never lived in France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YCCMB Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Let's add another example to the growing list of laws in France that are made for the sake of lawmaking. In-car breathalyser, anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTrash Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 The in car breathalyser has to be the stupidest law ever made anywhere. And at the moment I believe it is still law that you must have one but there is no penalty for not having one. FGS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 [quote user="Catalpa"][quote user="EuroTrash"]...and once you starts going down that road, people start feeling less and less responsible for anything and relying more and more on the state until they expect it to wipe their noses for them. Do we really want that?[/quote]I think that is exactly what France has got. People who reckon the UK is a nanny state have never lived in France.[/quote]Seconded, I refer to them as droids but with Tony Bliars huge addition to the rule books in the UK we are in danger of falling into the same pattern. I bet similar actions are widespread as when you do see other countries and read about their issues they seem very similar to our own on both sides of the channelNow where did I put my prozac [8-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroTrash Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Oh I don't know, I used to think the UK was streets ahead of France when it comes to Elf'n'Safety. I found it refreshing that the French let you wander round historic ruins and go near water with just a few signs telling you that they're dangerous. In the UK they were all sanitised with handrails like wot medieval castles never had, or fenced off and you're not allowed near. Having said that, I think it is starting to spread to France. Not much to do with sweeping chimneys but this year I went to Paris for 14 July, and what really struck me was that there weren't lines and lines of police everywhere. There were a lot of gendarmes around but they were all being useful, keeping crowds moving in the metro and making sure people knew which direction to walk in, not just standing in a cordon all the way along the Champs Elysées like bobbies seem to do at any kind of event in London. The crowd seemed to control itself perfectly well without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbie Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 [quote user="You can call me Betty"]Let's add another example to the growing list of laws in France that are made for the sake of lawmaking. In-car breathalyser, anyone?[/quote]I don't mind how many silly laws a government passes provided there is no penalty for breaking them. I suspect the legislators didn't want to admit the breathalyser law was silly so they just have a zero penalty. Less humiliating than admitting they got it wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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