Selling Second Home.

[Just Katie]

I know you have been asked this before but I cannot find the thread.  Two questions

1. I have an uninhabitable house in France which I am pondering about selling. I am UK resident and  I have done no work to it but believe that the market has risen over the period I have owned it.  What CGT liability will I have?

2. What will estate agents charge for selling this?

3. Am I correct in stating that the purchaser will be liable for notaires fees?

 

 

[Viv]

 

I think there is a table that shows the amount that estate agents charge which depends on the value of the property. I will try and find it for you.

All the selling fees etc are paid for by the buyer. Make sure that when the immo tells you what you should sell it for, you know roughly how much you will walk away with .

I'm not sure about the CGT , I think its 16 per cent if you are outside France but in the EEC but I'm really not sure. [8-)]

[TWINKLE]

Why are you thinking about selling your house?

[Just Katie]

Because I have found one somewhere else.  [:)]

Thanks Viv, 16% actually does ring a bell.

[TWINKLE]

Not next-door to me I hope?

[Tresco]

[quote user="KatieKopyKat"]Because I have found one somewhere else.  [:)][/quote]

I hear Iceland is nice. Come on Madame K Kat: Where?

[Just Katie]

Sorry, just as it was getting good.  I have got to go.  Son is chucking me off computer now.  Lovely to see you all anyway.  May sneak back on later.  X

[Russethouse]

Have a look at http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/625369/ShowPost.aspx and go to a post by Clare Comrie. That may be of help.

If not, try a search on Capital Gains Tax, there are quite a few posts about it.

[Tresco]

[quote user="KatieKopyKat"] Son is chucking me off computer now.  [/quote]

He should be in bed!

Katie, we used to have a holiday home. It's even more myther when it's habitable! [:P]

Seriously though, are you really thinking of selling it?. I'd stick a roof on it and sit it out, If I were you.

 

[Just Katie]

It is not a holiday home, we bought it about 5 years ago because the prices were increasing as we always intended to move to France when the children had finished their education.  Howver, I have been snooping about and have come across a few in a different location for the same price and habitable.  I intend to move over in about six years.

[Tresco]

Katie, have you been looking at websites?

What they say is 'habitabl'e may not be quite what you would thing was habitable.  Where I live now was advertised as habitable. It had no bathroom, a one cupboard 'kitchen', floors laid onto dirt, a very 'airy' roof' and a macerating toilet that you had to leave the main house for.

That said if the one you have is essentially a ruin, it will cost a bomb to get it, erm, habitable.

[Pads]

You said at the beginning that the buyer pays the estate agents fees? Im not the seller is paying for her own on our purchase? why is this ?[blink] 

[BJSLIV]

Who is paying in these examples?

For the sake of arguement I decide to sell my house for 100k and the agency fees will be 10%. So total sale price 110k

   agent 1 Describes this as 100 +10% fees

   agent 2 Advertises as 110 Inclusive of agents fees

   agent 3 Sells for 110 and the vendor says that they will pay the fees.

The purchaser pays the same amount, the vendor receives the same amount.

As a certain comedian used to say "its the way I tell em".

It doesn't matter how its described its the purchaser who hands over cash that the agent will be paid from.

 

 

[Pads]

so even though we knocked down the price, he still gets his same wack and the sellar loses the whole amount of knock down price? and we still dont have to pay any more than agreed?

[BJSLIV]

No the estate agents fees will be a percentage of the price, whichever way its worked out, so a reduction of 10000 euros would be split something like 9300 from the vendor 700 from the agent. The agent's whack will be larger the cheaper the property.

[P]

Have heard, and do not know if it is true that when an offer is made and the seller is not prepared to drop by that much that th agent sometimes reduces their fee so that they get a sale and the vendor gets the lowest that they are prepared to take. I.E. the agent takes lower than their published percentage rate.

Paul

[westland]

Yes, that happened to us, we were amazed when he offered to cut his commission by 50%.

[Nick Trollope]

On 2 occasions when we have bought via agents, we gave the Agent an offer inclusive of his fees & told him to negotiatethe fees with the seller. In both cases they reduced their fees (in 1 case by 50%). Nothing is cut-and-dried.

And it is 16% for non-French residents of the EU there are few allowances, if you have done no work, but you can take the Notaires fees charged when you bought into account, for exmple.

[hastobe]

KKK, as you are UK resident and it is your second home, it may not be the 16% French tax that will be important but the UK tax. If you are a higher rate tax payer and have owned the property for 5 complete tax years, your effective tax rate after taper relief will be 34% (18.7% if you are a lower rate tax payer).  This will reduce a little by your annual exemption.

Generally French residents will may much lower effective CGT rates on non business property - even taking into account cotisations - than UK resident higher rate tax payers.

Kathie

[Hagar]

[quote user="pads"]You said at the beginning that the buyer pays the estate agents fees? Im not the seller is paying for her own on our purchase? why is this ?[blink] [/quote]

Pads,

I think this might be a regional thing. Certainly we found that in and around Carcassonne the price advertised by agents almost invariably included the agents fees. It is a moot point who is actually paying the fees - some might say that the buyer always pays the fees. In practice the Notaire pays the agents fees at the signing of the Acte.

rgds

hagar 

[Will]

I quite agree that in most cases, however it is presented, the agents' fee comes out of what the buyer pays. Also that the accepted convention in most of France is that the buyer pays, although there seem to be areas, mainly in the south, where the seller is considered to pay the agent.

However, the distinction can be vital from the buyer's viewpoint. Under the English type system, the agent represents solely the vendor's interests. The French convention of the buyer paying means that the agent works for the buyer, who pays the fee, as well as the seller, who initially instructs the agent. Therefore the buyer can expect a lot more in the way of help and advice from a French agent, which can be important when you are not familiar with the French house buying system, this being quite different from the English. Of course, not all agents give this type of service, but that's another story altogether.