Soldering copper end feed joints!!

[Dc]

I am having terrible trouble soldering French copper end feed joints on to French copper pipe using English flux, English solder and English blow torch. The solder is forever melting and not being sucked into the joint. I've used more metres of solder than pipe. Can somebody please advise how to do it right because I'm fairly certain that my new central heating will p*ss water all over the house. Any help greatly appreciated.

regards

dc (aspiring plumber)

[Nelson]

I would think that the reason is that French copper pipe is thicker the British copper pipe and that you are not getting it hot enough.

p.s I think that because of increased water pressure French plumbers normally braze instead of soldering.

regards colin

[Goo_Rat]

You said french joints & french pipe - right??

Assuming both the bits to be connected are the same size , make sure its nice and clean, (use wire wool till the pipe end is v shinny), do the same with the inside of the connector and then wipe over with a clean cloth. Apply flux to both and then fry that sucker!!

I have used english flux and solder without problem. for a 14mm pipe I heat the connector for about a count of 24 then add the flux to the joint, it should suck right on in there.

I have seen the "french braze not solder because of increased water pressure" story before on a forum post, but havent been able to find any proof of it - Especially with Casto-forma-rama (is it just me that always gets those 2 confused) selling solder and flux right beside the copper pipe.

Good luck, if this doesn't help try this http://www.diydata.com/techniques/plumbing/joints/solder.htm

 

[Pucette<P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Pucette<FONT><P><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt">"Qui ne connaît pas la campagne lhiver, ne connaît pas la campagne et ne connaît pas]

French professionals braze and don't solder, they have to in order to comply with the regulations... I solder, using infinitely cheaper English flux and solder and a similar technique to the above posting (I don't count the seconds) and it worked fine, even on mains water pipes, from the very first day.

[Dave&Olive]

hi first

        trouble at mill lets see if we can help you are either using

1.. the wrong size fittings

2.. too hot

3.. too cold

4.. no flux

5. not cleaning the pipe or fitting.

for 1.. make sure the fitting is a dead fit 10mm fitting needs 10mm pipe the french use several different sizes it should be a tight or snug fit.

2..to hot with yorkshire flux it turns black soilder will not stick

3..too cold say no more

4..try self cleaning flux 3 times the price but worth every penny this will cure 2.. as well

5.. see 4..

you should only need the same amount of solder as the fitting so a say 15mm uk fitting needs 15mm of solder for each side aprox.also fit a preasure reducing valve to the main water inlet (stop****** braized then you can use solder thoughout with no worry

I am enjoy ing hic some wine I brought back from my last trip so sod the spell check and I hope this makes sense

                  Dave the dragons in bed

[Michael]

When soldering, clean pipe,apply flux, heat the centre of the fitting gently moveing the torch up and down the fitting soon as you see the flux sweating or bubbling apply the solder .A lot of people tend to heat the pipe 3or4inchs each side thats incorrect.A good test or practise put a matchstick alongside the fitting when thats charred its ready to solder.[stop laughing you pros diy ing is serious.happy plumbing.

[James]

Hello,

When soldering I cut the pipe with a pipe cutter then clean the pipe thoroughly with wire wool until nice and shiny then flux the fitting and make sure the pipe is inserted into the fitting all the way as some french 14mm elbow fittings have been faulty and are too tight for the pipe to fit into properly.

Then I heat the pipe up using the blowtorch tip about 4-7 inches away from the pipe and after a bit I test if the joint is hot enough by applying the solder and if hot enough you will see the solder run around the fitting called capillary action. (If not hot enough continue heating)

I then use enough solder so that it drips off the fitting, then I give it a very light brush with the wire wool to get rid of exccess solder. Let the joint cool down then clean the joint to remove all of the dirt and flux residue. If a joint dosen't seem to want to solder try fluxing it again while heating the joint and try soldering it again. If that does not work remake the joint. James

[Nick Trollope]

Just to empahsise James's point, never heat the solder with the blowtorch. Once the joint is hot, remove the blowtorch then apply the solder. If the joint is hot enough, then the solder will "flow".

I can't say that I would need 24 seconds to heat a 14mm connection with a butane torch, however.

[Alcazar]

I've done LOADS of plumbing in the UK, (even doing it for nowt for others ), and have to say, that I follow the fit?/clean/flux/solder/wipe method, and the only time I've had problems has been when there has been some water getting to it, so it won't go above 100 degrees! Have used end feed and YP fittings.

I do HATE French compression fittings, the ones with rubber inserts, though

Alcazar

[Dc]

Thanks to all for the advice, this forum is really useful for the novice diyer, I basically was not getting the joint hot enough. I was OK on 14 mm pipe but not on 22mm as it takes a lot longer to heat up.

regards

dc

[Goo_Rat]

Glad to hear you got there m8

[Bobc]

dc

If you have a lot of pipework to install you might want to take a look at the flexible plastic PER system.

No brazing other than to connect the new installation to the old incoming pipes.

Tubing pre-installed in trunking - available in 200m reels - ideal for installing underfloor, etc.

Far faster installation time over brazed joints/fittings.

Less expensive than copper pipe.

Large range of clamp-on brass end fittings.

Pre-fabricated mounts for wall-mounted shower/bath taps.

Colour coded red & blue pipes - no confusion on a big installation!

Far more resistant to freezing than copper pipe.

The downside is that it requires an investment of 200/300 Euros in tools for cutting/clamping, etc but this would be recovered on an installation, with the saving in time and materials over copper pipe.

We use it for kitchen/bathroom installations and most of the French plumbers/heating engineers that we work with also use it.

All the tubing/fittings/tools are available from decent French trade plumbing suppliers.

Not to be confused with the DIY products on sale at Bricomarché and Lapeyre at hugely inflated prices!!

Regards,

Bob Clarke
htp://perso.wanadoo.fr/grindoux