Getting Desperate!

[james Mallett]

Please can anybody recommend a good plumber or plasterer in 56 close to Ploermel.

I've already called 3 french plumbers, only one turned up to give me an estimate and nearly three weeks later I'm still waiting despite the fact he lives in my village.  I've also called four french plasterers for estimates, only one turned up yet again and a week later I'm still waiting after being told I would have it in a couple of days.  I know french workmen are renound for being laid back, but this is crazy and I'm getting desperate now.

I'd appreciate any help.

Thanks

DAWN

  

[Alexis]

The trouble is, they are booked up for months.  Even the 'not so good' ones!

Thirteen months I waited for my windows...

Have you tried Tabelec in Josselin?  I am not quite sure if it is Tabelec now but it used to be before he bought the old Super U and made it into a Mr. Bricolage.  They always seemed to arrive when they said.  It is now in the old antique shop near Le Pelican....the road out of Josselin to .... Pontivy.

[Sashabel]

It's not just the French.  I am trying to get a new driveway laid before I put the UK house on the market.  Out of the 6 companies I made appointments with, only two turned up!  Needles to say, I'm getting very frustrated

Sasha

[Alcazar]

It's certainly in France AND the UK.

We have waited ages for stuff to be done, and that was AFTER getting quotes, which took an age themselves, even some of the workmen saying they were too busy to quote until the next fortnight!

The problem in the UK is the same: I know of two people who wanted a plumber. One, in the North west, eventaually got one after several laughed at him over the phone when he told them how small the job was.........he paid £75 an hour

The other, in the south east paid nearly £100 an hour to get someone

The problem is years and years of concentrating on sending every kid to university, so we are now entering the time when there just AREN'T any skilled men (and women) about...........they all have degrees, sure, but what good are most of 'em?

I've heard it described more than once as the biggest skills shortage since the end of WW1

And what are government doing? A new drive to get even MORE kids to go to university! Crazy

Alcazar

[Weedon]

[quote]It's certainly in France AND the UK. We have waited ages for stuff to be done, and that was AFTER getting quotes, which took an age themselves, even some of the workmen saying they were too busy to q...[/quote]

Alcazar (if you pardon the pun) you have hit the nail on the head.

I bet if you did a survey on those finishing university 10 years on, a high percentage will be earning a living doing something unconnected to their university qualification.  In my opinion university life is a copout for many of them.

Mrs T and Co. did well in some respects but killed off apprenticeships and trainee schemes and a skills shortage now is the result.

Becoming a tradesman is ever so slowly gaining respectability and someday having grime under your fingernails will not be frowned upon.

weedon

 

 

[Dick Smith]

Alcazar - your willingness to spout off from a position of prejudice and ignorance never fails to amaze.

The present government, in an attempt to make good the damage done to apprenticeships and skills training by the Tories, is attempting to bring apprenticeships back, precisely to overcome the skills shortages. But of course, admitting that would mean that you can't shoot your mouth off 'against the man', wouldn't it?

Look at http://www.dfes.gov.uk/ma.consultation/

Do you ever wonder if other people have your penetrating insight? Possibly people who are prepared to do something about the problem?

I would have done this more politely, by PM, but the last time I PMed you I didn't even get the courtesy of being told to eff off.

[Alcazar]

<<<Mrs T and Co. did well in some respects but killed off apprenticeships and trainee schemes and a skills shortage now is the result.>>>

But the really worrying thing is: what are Mr B and co, or for that matter, M. Chirac and co, actually doing about it?

Answer: not much. The UK govt, for example has just brought in YET ANOTHER scheme to encourage still more of our young people to go to university, and once they come out at 21/22, how many of them are going to accept a pittance to train to be a bricky, a plasterer, an electrician, a plumber etc etc?

Not many

Alcazar

[Alcazar]

The present government, in an attempt to make good the damage done to apprenticeships and skills training by the Tories, is attempting to bring apprenticeships back, precisely to overcome the skills shortages. But of course, admitting that would mean that you can't shoot your mouth off 'against the man', wouldn't it?

Look at http://www.dfes.gov.uk/ma.consultation/

Do you ever wonder if other people have your penetrating insight? Possibly people who are prepared to do something about the problem?

Whoa Dick old mate, no need to be rude is there?

You now have a PM, but not quite what you might have expected Had I ever received the first, you'd have had two now, neither of them rude!

I don't suppose you thought of non-delivery though?

But to business: I note that you say present government are doing something, or attempting to do so. OK, but are you saying that from a position of knowledge, or just parrotting the dfes site?

I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but if you believe stuff on that, and many other government sites, you'll believe that there are fairies at the bottonm of your garden

Are you aware, for example, that Government quote figures of around 80,000 "new plumbers" in training, and similar rubbish for electricians, platerers etc?
The reality is that those courses are at best a method of massaging the truth, and at worst a sham and a lie.

The poor kids go onto the courses having been fed the idea that they are fulfilling a growing need (true) and will earn a massive amount when trained (only partly true).

The reality is that those courses, and many more like them, rely on the kids being actually employed by a plumber, electrician etc, at the latest, by the end of their second year, or the course CANNOT RUN TO IT'S END and the YP will NEVER be fully trained.

The horrid truth is that, since there are now so few tradespersons out there, a VAST proportion of the kids on those courses can't be taken on: there's just no-one to employ 'em!

Indeed, in the area in which I live, a youth took a HALF PAGE advert in the local rag last year to get taken on as a plumber, good references from college etc, but got NOWT. He's now back at college doing something REALLY useful like Leisure and Rec, and wants to get a degree in it.

So.............not quite a tale of "well done Mr Blair", is it?

But, you know what they say about fooling some of the people some of the time, don't you Dick?

Kind regards,

Alcazar

[Dick Smith]

Alcazar, I was rude and I apologise for that.

But I would like to let you know that I actually run one of those DfES sites, and to suggest that it lies is insulting - do you have any evidence?

There are problems with apprenticeships now that the tradition has been broken, and getting employers to subsidise training is just about impossible, although they like everyone else want 'the system' or 'the government' to do the job for them, for free. The attempt to re-establish them is important, and I don't see how continually sneering at people who are trying to get the job done helps anyone.

Your mocking of getting more young people to university is just a bit of Daily Mailery. The target is actually to get 50% of the population to have a qualification equivalent to A levels, such that if they were in academic subjects they would qualify for a university place. This is defined as a Level 3 qualification - "Level 3 qualifications recognise the ability to gain, and where relevant apply a range of knowledge, skills and understanding. Learning at this level involves obtaining detailed knowledge and skills. It is appropriate for people wishing to go to university, people working independently, or in some areas supervising and training others in their field of work". It is also available in a wide range of vocational subjects (including Fish Management) through National Vocational Qualifications, and the 50% target includes these people.

What the DfES (or Capita on their behalf)******d up was the Personalised Learning Credits scheme, but that wouldn't have done much for practical skills.

What sickens me are the TV ads which try to persuade young people that with a bit of expensive training they can become 'IT Professionals'. I am very sorry for the young man who couldn't find work, but we don't make policies based on one person. And we need plumbers, so I don't understand what caused his problem.

So I apologise for being rude, but you must accept that you are not really criticising from a position of knowledge.

No PM by the way - mine was to recommend a US pharmaceutical called Excedrine, which has helped me a lot where co-proxy failed completely.

[Alcazar]

Dick: apology accepted.

I wonder whjat's up with the PM system. I do get occasional e-mails to my e-mail address, but have only ever had ONE PM to the new system and that was your last one

Whilst I accept your points and your honesty in making them, we're going to have to differ over the effectiveness, or otherwise, of a system that is crying out for skilled trades people, but seems to the layman (and his son and daughter), to be geared VERY strongly towards pushing YP's to university, from where many emerge with "worthless" qualifications.

I would also question the effectiveness of a vocational system that REQUIRES the YP's to be in employment or the course cannot continue to it's end.

It's that sort of double standards and duplicity that don't make sense to me.

I see where you're coming from over getting government to pay for apprenticeships, and that they can't afford it, (but CAN afford to bomb Afghanistan, and Iraq ), but surely, even the most died in the wool monetarist has to accept that you can't force, cajole, bribe or otherwise influence people WHO DON'T EXIST to take apprentices?

Kind regards,

Alcazar

[Iceni]

I was involved with someone setting up apprenticeships and he could not get any young people to fill the places. The reason was simple, schools wanted the students to go onto college or uni, working as a tradesman (and earning very very good money eventually) was never on anyones agenda. I also know of waiting lists of years to do courses for plumbing as there are not enough tutors to take the courses - and many people wanting to train were once in IT, another almost defunct industry. How can you run a full time course and pay a plumber £30 an hour as tutor when he can go out and use his skill and get up to £100 an hour. So the tutors that are left are not actually working as plumbers - and that is just an example.

I was a qualified Learndirect tutor, when I qualified and then left we had the envious situation of more tutors having been trained at the expense of the UK taxpayer than actual students taking courses - training tutors was the main business of LD. The courses that LD do are mainly computer based - again a bias by gov towards giving us more of what we already have too much of. The gov ruined the real training companies when they brought in their scheme which allowed every Tom, Helen or Harry to open a CD based school and get the Gov grants - even to this day most training is CD based and is free to the user. There is no reason for anyone to start a training school when they change the rules or remove your income at the drop of a hat and that is not just IT, I would never suggest anyone should open a plumbing school - because there is no security when the lads and lasses at the top do not live in the real world.  I USED to run a training company and also worked as a college lecturer so this is not something I made up. Now, what new qualification will they make up this week - and who will pay for the new governing body, huge new rules and regs books, new type faces (oh yes they do that to) and expensive logos - well the taxpayer who at the end of the day still will not be able to get a plumber or electrician, but will be able to go to the sports centre and marvel at all the students doing work experience in sports management before they find real work.

There is no push to get workers of any age into manual labour. It is classed as nasty dirty work.

My son is doing a Modern Apprenticeship in filing - he is 20 and earns £75 a week, I am not going to write any more about this as a red mist is descending. 

[XLeblanc]

I feel the original post has taken a bit of a change of direction but feel obliged to comment on the apprenticeship / training quandry the Uk and I presume other countries are experiencing currently.

I started my apprenticeship in 1981 with the Electricity board in Scotland. That year there were 102 apprentices recruited by the board. The year after around half of that and the following year only three.

I currently work offshore with an oil company and we do have apprentices passing through. Even if we had the amount of apprentices in training schemes that we will need for the future. I fear the quality of training, the recruitment of the correct people and the actual attitude of the modern apprentice recruits leaves a lot to be desired.

NVQ's seem to be more important than anything else. I am currently having to do an NVQ to prove that I am what I say I am and that I can doe the job I have been doing for twenty years. What is wrong with my college certificates, apprenticeship indentures and completion certificate? An NVQ does not even come close to what I learned while doing my four year apprenticeship never mind what another twenty years of experience has tought me following that.

The biggest thing my apprenticeship taught me was respect, something the younger generation of today seem to have lost forever.

The tradesman of today in the building trade are only taking advantage of a situation the wise forward thinking politicians have created. As far as I am concerned the politicians in the UK have their own agenda and not that of the country and they know jack s**t about the real world where most of us live.

Good luck finding your elusive, expensive tradesman, my motto is learn to do it yourself.