Charley Posted March 23, 2005 Share Posted March 23, 2005 Hello everybody,I am just about to start pointing the outside of my Charante house and looking at my neighbours excellent finish makes me quite nervous! Just wondered if any kind people could give some advice on getting that flat and smoothe look. I was also wondering if it is best to clean the stone faces before or after 'chauxing' and how to do this. I cant really use sand blasting because of the environment around me.Thanks for reading,Charley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 I haven't done the outside of the house, only the inside but I watched some pro's doing the outside of a house near me...They covered virtually all of the wall with the chaux mix, just leaving the most sticky out bits uncovered then once it had started to dry, brushed away the surplus with a wire brush until they had the effect they wanted. This means, of course, that if you have a 'bad bit', you can leave it covered! Except if it looks daftOf course, this is the style in this area. I don't know what the style is near you.I can't help about the cleaning. I would have thought before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charley Posted March 24, 2005 Author Share Posted March 24, 2005 Thanks for the reply Alexis,I have just had an attempt at pointing a small section on one of the old barns on my property and came across a few problems....1.I mixed to the proportions that the bag of chaux I bought (35kg bag = 10-11 buckets of sand, so I did 1 bucket of sand and 3.5kg of chaux). I found that this looks too gray- almost like concrete! Does that mean I add more chaux or sand, I think I need quite a creamy white finish. Also this bag of chaux was NHL 5, I read in a renovation book 3.5 is most common. Does this make a big difference?2.The finish is quite rough at the moment (trowl lines etc). Does anyone know how to smoothe it down and when to do it? 3.I tried to make the chaux all flat and level but im finding this difficult to achieve. Is this just a learnt skill or is there a secret trick to it?Thanks for reading again, any links or advice really welcome!!Charley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysfloss Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 Try doing lots of samples of mixes on the floor let them dry because the colour will change as it dries.To get rid of the lines let it go off a bit then pass a damp brush over it(paint brush or similar)This site might help www.c-e-s-a.fr This is a job that the more you do the easier to get the mix and the finish right so start somewhere less important!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 My mix was 2.5:1 So basically five of sand to two of chaux of exactly the same container...when I was pointing the inside I used a glass as I used to get so bloody bored I didn't mix up much! I would say that too grey it lacks chaux. The wire brush will take of the excess and then a wet brush sounds good but I haven't tried it. Did you sift your sand? That makes it a lot smoother. I use very dry sand too. I've got some here in a bucket I was planning on using but changed my mind. Don't forget too that you can change the consistancy. You can start off pretty stiff and then mix it more watery which should - or might - make it smoother as a sort of top coat.I'm afraid that it is trial and error to begin with.I don't know what my chaux was as I bought a sack from the builders merchants and it had just been 'filled'.Don't forget too to wet the wall or it won't stick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charley Posted March 24, 2005 Author Share Posted March 24, 2005 Thanks guys,Some interesting points to try out, just bought some chaux with 3.5 NHL to see how that makes a difference.Charley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weedon Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 From my humble experiences with pointing I found that a lime and sand mix was so difficult to use because the transfer from trowel to wall was tricky, you had to time the clean up just right because if it was too dry it didn't smooth out using a soft household brush, and if too moist it left a lime stain across the stones.Then I was introduced to Procalit F My life was transformed. You can obtain it from Point P, it comes in 25kg bags and comes in various pre-mixed colours (I use Ton Pierre) so every mix is the same colour. I mix up a third of a builders bucket at a time and apply with a trowel to the gaps only, allowing a little time for it to go off and smoothing it with the soft household brush. The difference from the wall using lime and sand to the ones using Procalit is brilliant. I think you will find that Procalit is lime based so allows the walls to breathe.My experience is only with stone walls where the original mortar has turned to earth so cleaning was easy because I had seen locals using a power washer to pre-clean their joints so I did the same. I used a sand and cement mortar to fill in all of the big holes first using a ram-rodding stick and plasterers hawk.weedon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysfloss Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 Using a wire brush tends to leave the mark of the brush and if your sand is grainy will pull out the grains.Mind having said that this might be someones desired effect.As for the actual putting in of the mix ,because the stones and joints aren't the same size flatten different size copper pipe( 6,8,10mm) to put the mix in place.Like I said earlier its doing it and finding whats right way for you that brings the results.As weedon says there are lots of pret a l'emploi on the the market www.weber-broutin.fr is one of many Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charley Posted March 26, 2005 Author Share Posted March 26, 2005 thanks again for your input guys,any other ideas on cleaning the stone faces? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeandSue Posted March 27, 2005 Share Posted March 27, 2005 We've been reading this discussion with interest, but again found the colouring difficult having tries different combinations. We have been using a sand that is slightly reddish yellow. We have seen some in a trailer which was a much paler yellow and would match our the work on our existing walls. We'd appreciate it if anybody around Bergerac to Sarlat could tell us if they've managed to locate sand of this colour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeandSue Posted March 27, 2005 Share Posted March 27, 2005 We've been reading this discussion with interest, but again found the colouring difficult having tries different combinations. We have been using a sand that is slightly reddish yellow. We have seen some in a trailer which was a much paler yellow and would match our the work on our existing walls. We'd appreciate it if anybody around Bergerac to Sarlat could tell us if they've managed to locate sand of this colour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardhat Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 ive done quite a lot and this allways works,bog standard chaux from builders,the sand gives it the colour so shop about different sand different finish,when you have the sand you want get enough for the whole job you might not match it again later.i use a trowel to put it on,a wire brush to take it off and a softer brush to take out the lines left by the wire brush,let the mix go very nearly dry before wire brushing thisfirst brush work is what gives you the finish you want,mix a full mixer full 3 sand 1 chaux exact do it in level bucket fulls and allways the same mix so the colour stays constant,by the time you get a full mix on the wall the first bit should be about ready to come off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iceni Posted March 28, 2005 Share Posted March 28, 2005 Our builders merchant produced a colour chart for the sand. We chose the colour we wanted and as long as we always get the same colour we don't have a problem. Our stones are 'river stones' and as such are very varied in colour with loads of rose quartz. We wanted a beige pink colour as that was the original colour of the mud (but the mud was much deeper pink) and the colour we were advised to use has worked well inside - we have the huge main area of the main barn to do before we venture outside but should be experts by then (well I live in hope ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pamletpamlet Posted March 30, 2005 Share Posted March 30, 2005 Please does anyone have the recipe for mixing chaux for painting interior walls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilnfield Posted April 9, 2005 Share Posted April 9, 2005 Maybe I'm a bit late adding to this topic but would like to mention some of the tips I picked up from a neighbour who is a macon.Mix is better loose than dry, it sticks much better. Try throwing the mix from your trowel into the joints rather than pressing it in, over a couple of square feet and then remove the excess ith the edge of the trowel. If you place a board or a piece of plastic sheet under where you are working you can recycle all of the mix that falls off (you will need to add extra water to it), The chaux is ready to brush when you can just press a fingernail into it, if you are getting wire brush marks it could be because the surface is not quite dry enough or you are being heavy handed. After wire brushing the excess you can "paint" over he chaux with a wet paintbrush. This will make the larger grains in the sand shine. finally, if you have to leave a part mix in your auge for any reason, add more water and keep it in the shade, it should then rework when you come back to it rather than going hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dshart2 Posted April 9, 2005 Share Posted April 9, 2005 [quote]Maybe I'm a bit late adding to this topic but would like to mention some of the tips I picked up from a neighbour who is a macon. Mix is better loose than dry, it sticks much better. Try throwing the...[/quote]"Mix is better loose than dry, it sticks much better. Try throwing the mix from your trowel into the joints rather than pressing it in, over a couple of square feet and then remove the excess ith the edge of the trowel. If you place a board or a piece of plastic sheet under where you are working you can recycle all of the mix that falls off (you will need to add extra water to it), The chaux is ready to brush when you can just press a fingernail into it, if you are getting wire brush marks it could be because the surface is not quite dry enough or you are being heavy handed. After wire brushing the excess you can "paint" over he chaux with a wet paintbrush. This will make the larger grains in the sand shine. finally, if you have to leave a part mix in your auge for any reason, add more water and keep it in the shade, it should then rework when you come back to it rather than going hard. "Could not agree more . In our area we use sable jaune . Buy a large quantity as this will keep the right quality through out the job . The mix we use is 4 sand to either 1 white cement and 1 chaux natural or 4 sand to 2 chaux natural . We use the chaux- cement mix because the outside stone is shale ( better adhesion ) but on most other stone use the chaux only mix . The inside of the house the stone quality is better so the chaux only mix is better . Remember chaux was used because 1 . cement was too expensive in the 1800's but 2. lime cement breaths allowing the clay filled walls to give up moisture . Do not use the cement mix on both sides of the wall as you will have a damp problem . We found a wet runny mix was best , the walls soaked up the extra moisture very quickly , allowing the smoothing with either a wet paint brush or for large areas a soft broom head . Start from the top and work down , that way you do not spoil the work you have already done . Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mpprh Posted April 9, 2005 Share Posted April 9, 2005 Himy local builders merchant has sand in various clours : gris, jaune, blancThey were happy to give me a bucket of each to test colours.We tested various colour mixes before settling on 1.5 chaux, 2 blanc, 1 yellow. Our test used plastic cup measures, then leave to dry : it is best to write down each mix tested !Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charley Posted April 10, 2005 Author Share Posted April 10, 2005 I have found that when recycling the chaux that has dropped on your plastic (or whatever) its best to use this in any deeper holes or gaps and then cover with nice fresh chaux. Even if you clean your wall real well I have found you always get bits of dirt and dust mixed in, which may effect the colour a little.Also my neighbour finally helped me out a bit and reminded me that you must apply plenty of pressure and get it right into the wall. It aint just a pretty finnish.Charley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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