Electric heating

[Ken]

We are just beginning our search for a French home and often see reference to electric heating in advertisements. We have tended to be put off by this, assuming it to be something like the UK style night storage heaters, which in my experience are hopelessly inefficient and expensive. However we have also seen mention of "electric heating to radiators" and  also to electric underfloor heating. We would welcome comments or information on the various types of heating which are prevalent in French properties and their comparative costs.   [:)]

[alnmike]

We have what were described as 'electric to radiators', to me they are

electric wall heaters. ( not fan heaters) We had guests who used them

for a week in February and the bill was for one month more than the

rest of the year. They are very expensive!! When we are there

we have them on 'frost' setting, and use a wood burning stove, which is

very efficient! In the UK my Mum has underfloor electric heating. It is

very efficient - quite good value on the Economy 7 tariff, but it is

not very controlable as it takes a little while to warm up, and if you

have a not day, you can't really turn it down. But as background with

another source it is great. I would rule out looking at a property, we

wanted central heating, but we manage fine - it's just a change of

style!

Edit - doh, I meant I wouldn't rule out - sorry

[Benjamin]

Ken

We have a bungalow with underfloor electric heating and it's extremely comfortable. It can take up to 24 hours in the dead of winter to get from 0 to 60 but that will only ever be a problem if it's a holiday home. These days you can get very sophisticated timer systems if you go away on holiday during the winter period.

The secret of all this is having good insulation which we have in our five year old property.

I can't help you with instalation costs as we bought second hand but our running costs for our all electric house with all the toys is about 1.100€ per year. We don't use any other forms of heating such as oil, gas or logs.

I agree with the previous poster that a lot of heating in new properties advertised as electric are radiators on the wall and I've heard from friends that these can be expensive to run.

Benjamin

[Gastines]

We brought 7 Dimplex Slimline storage heaters over from UK.[ you can often find these advertised for sale in local papers at quite a cheap price, very expensive new!! ] We use them in the bedrooms and kitchen and as a background heat in the lounge which has a woodburner.I put them on timers to come on during the cheaper off-peak electricity at night and with our 300ltr electric water heater/oven etc our yearly bill is under 800euros. The storage type heaters they sell here are very expensive, that's why they never put the price on any publicity material.

Gas or Oil fired central heating is always a first choice and after installation, cheaper to run.Good insulation in the roof helps.

 I was told by a neighbour that EDF are stopping the cheap night tariff if you haven't already got it.!!

Regards.5 mins St.Malo

[Chancer]

There is a new generation of slimline controlled storage heaters (some with fan assist) now available from BDC (or Bridisco) in the UK.

bdctrade.co.uk

The prices range from £80 - £200 for models between 0.85 to 3.3 KW (all + VAT) and are made in Spain.

Given the price stability of nuclear powered electricity here, the escalating costs of gas and fioul and also the high capital costs of  other forms of heating I am going to use the storage heaters in the rental flats I am creating.

Storage heaters by their nature will be less efficient and controllable than panneau rayonants but with the cheap heures creuse electricity and the reduced capital and installation cost they are a good option today and I beleive will be even better in the future.

[Ken]

I did reply to this but hit the e-mail button instead of reply button so my thoughts seem to have been lost forever - not used to the system yet! You seem to confirm my feeling that "electric to radiators" just means ordinary old wall heaters - I can believe they are ruinously expensive! I had wondered if there was some system of pumping electrically heated water from a tank to radiators but apparently not.

I can see the benefit of underfloor electric as background with a woodburner for cosy evenings. However, we have been given an indication of cost for logs to a rental property of euro 100 per month, which seems very expensive. Is this typical or just profiteering?

In any case, we would hope eventually to buy a property with an acre or two of woodland so that we do not need to buy much wood. Is this realistic? What area of woodland does it take to be self sufficient? Does anyone have any thoughts?

Your advice not to be put off by electric heating if everything else seems right echoes my own thoughts. As you say its just a change of attitude and lifestyle.

 

[alnmike]

You 'PM'd' me instead of post, no problems!! [:D]

[Ken]

Benjamin, thanks for your thoughts on underfloor heating. We are probably looking for an older property so may not have the benefit of efficient insulation as you do. I have noted your point about slow response time with underfloor. How is it installed? Is is like a large electric blanket under the floor or are the wires embedded in concrete or something. As you can tell, I'm not a heating engineer!

[Blanche Neige]

www.acova.com

take a look at this website for electric radiators, these are supposed to be better than the old night storage heaters and very energy efficient.

[Ken]

Gastines thanks for your input. Second hand heaters is a good thought - your costs certainly seem amazingly cheap compared with UK. What size and age of property? Your general comment that gas or oil must be first choice really confirms my own thoughts. Like others you emphasise again the benefits of insulation.

[Ken]

JR your information re. new generation of storage heaters makes me feel I should at least re-evaluate my natural prejudice against electric heating! I will certainly look into this further. Thanks

[Ken]

Thanks Blanche Neige have made a note of Acova.

[Owens88]

I suspect that, as in everything else in life, a mixture is good.

*Underfloor heating is great, and especially so if fed by low input sources like geo-thermal.

Would be my preference in bathrooms and bedrooms anyway.

*Storage heaters somewhere within the prop are good for the prop , but the maths  to make the economic balance right are not easy.

*Rayonante in living rooms are far preferable to the, more drying, convectors.

*Fan heaters to get an effect quickly are good - BUT on their own are almost useless at generating 'Comfort Heat' (e.g. sit down and read a book).

*Wood burners are wonderful once lit !

[Chancer]

My very first property (a newly built housing association bedsit) had wall mounted oil filled radiators as heating, the electricity bills were horrendous and most of the flats were running with damp even if the tenants could afford to leave the heating on.

I fitted a second hand storage heater (which would have been manufactured in the 60's or 70's) and wired it into (bodged more like) the economy 7 feed to the immersion heater, the flat was warm and dry thereafter and the running costs were a small fraction of before.

I then moved on to a one bedroom flat on the same development and did the same but with some new (about 1982) storage heaters with built in convectors, these were even better, not long after that the housing association gave in to the pressure from residents and bad publicity in the local papers (it was supposed to be charitable social housing) and retrofitted storage heaters to the whole estate.

Currently I am living in while converting an ex hotel, very cold unheated and uninsulated, last winter I used small panneau rayonnants in my small bedroom and bathroom on a low setting to keep out the frost and they were bloody expensive to run, I had intended to use them in each of the rental flats when completed but can see that whilst they give a nice "comfort" heat they are as or more inefficient as the old oil filled ones.

I am now going to fit the BDC storage heaters to the first flat (mine) nearing completion, but will have to wait till after the consuel inspection as they will probably not be acceptable with C.E. markings in lieu of N.F.