Nick Trollope Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 Couple of problems with installations that I am trying to do;I am trying to install a C-E in a location that prevents the use of a drain for the GdS "overflow". Can I use an expansion tank (in the cold "feed") alone? I appreciate that I will have problems if I need to drain the C-E, but I will cross that bridge when I come to it....And;Can I install a woodburner (not an insert) straight into an unlined chimney, via a (is it a register plate?) plate, or must I install a 125mm flue all the way up the perfectly good (huge) chimney?All help appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VJ Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 Nick not sure what c-e stands for in this application so can't help you there, but with the wood burner a double insulated flue, flexible or otherwise is the way to go (in my opinion !!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Trollope Posted September 24, 2005 Author Share Posted September 24, 2005 [quote]Nick not sure what c-e stands for in this application so can't help you there, but with the wood burner a double insulated flue, flexible or otherwise is the way to go (in my opinion !!!)[/quote]Thanks for this.C-E is Chauffe-Eau.OK, point taken about flue, but is it necessary (ie. will stove not work without one) or mandatory. Why double insulated in a chimney? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VJ Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 Nick here goes and I hope it assists As soon as you enter the chimney or when you start to pass through the ceiling about 500 mm before this you will need to change from single skin flu to double insulated flue, correctly sized for the JobThe flue must be either Galv/insulation/stainless steel or Stainless steel/insulation/stainless steel.I personally prefer all ss .It can be solid or flexible providing it is for a wood burner The reason for the insulation is so that the passage of the burnt gases continue out of the chimney before they condense thereby leaving a tar deposit in the chimney or single liner. The grade of ss interior is 316 which resists acidIf you could guarantee you were only burning dried wood then ther would not be a problemThis could result in leakage through the brickwork if no liner and a potential chimney fire.The potential fire also applies to a single skine flueThe non flexible ss flues are very expensive but they will present no problems and you need to have it swept once a year for the certificate for the insurance co.I hope this helps and for the flue have a look at Selkirks site www.selkirk.co.uk and I beleive the range is the SM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave&Olive Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 [quote]Couple of problems with installations that I am trying to do; I am trying to install a C-E in a location that prevents the use of a drain for the GdS "overflow". Can I use an expansion tank (in the c...[/quote]hi nick re- flues not my forte but try http://www.backwoodsman-stoves.co.uk/TOPICS/INSTALLATION/Installation25.htmlmight help I have got to fit a poele myself so good luck on that one .back to the hot water tank, if you are talking what i think you are, the valve is not only an overflow valve but is also an anti-boil valve, think about this situation when the water in the hot water tank is near boiling the rads are red hot and the fire in the boiler is bouncing ,so all the water you have in the system is about to boil and explode the boiler.......the valve dumps all the hot water in the tank i.e. letting in cold to inturn cool the boiler.....no waste outlet for the dumpvalve........ 45 gallons of hot water on the floor or......a bloody great big hole in the roof the" expanstion tank" best place is on the hot water coil return. you should also fit a "vanne mellangeuse" french so you can look it up , this can be fitted on the return from the rads to the boiler , this is to keep cold water from returning to the boiler , i.e. cold water rots em pdq, so only lets water return when hot . best i can do on your info you posted daveps now about my electrics........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opel Fruit<P><BR>Opel Fruit, Dept. 53<P> Posted September 25, 2005 Share Posted September 25, 2005 I assume the C/E is electric. You cannot use an expansion vessel in place of the safety valve/relief valve, sorry.The comments above about the Vannes Mellangeuse (Mixer valve) are wholly incorrect. They should not be installed unless as a replacement part and are not used as described. See my sticky in the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Trollope Posted September 25, 2005 Author Share Posted September 25, 2005 [quote]I assume the C/E is electric. You cannot use an expansion vessel in place of the safety valve/relief valve, sorry. The comments above about the Vannes Mellangeuse (Mixer valve) are wholly incorrect. ...[/quote]OK, thanks.Any suggestions as to how I can install a C-E (yes, electric) in a situation where it is almost impossible to install a drain?Ta again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opel Fruit<P><BR>Opel Fruit, Dept. 53<P> Posted September 25, 2005 Share Posted September 25, 2005 Can you get down to 14mm pipe from the cup outlet and vent off that way? The other way to do it would be to have a large evaporator dish close by, but that gets manky and you never really know if it full or not. Or is it because the ballon is below ground level???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Trollope Posted September 25, 2005 Author Share Posted September 25, 2005 [quote]Can you get down to 14mm pipe from the cup outlet and vent off that way? The other way to do it would be to have a large evaporator dish close by, but that gets manky and you never really know if it...[/quote]It's not in a cellar, it is in an attic, but below wallplate level and surrounded by 90cm thick walls - I can't find a drill long enough (no, I can't drill a 20mm hole from 2 sides accurately!). Do you of the existance of an SDS+ extension?Ta! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opel Fruit<P><BR>Opel Fruit, Dept. 53<P> Posted September 25, 2005 Share Posted September 25, 2005 I have a 1m 20mm SDS drill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VJ Posted September 25, 2005 Share Posted September 25, 2005 Yes nick as OP states they are available as I have 15mm 20 mm and 25mmYou may have to special order them De Walt do full range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave&Olive Posted September 25, 2005 Share Posted September 25, 2005 hi dropped myself init on this one , totally misread the question,s .....thought you were trying to install a wood burner to heat the hot water....... dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter72 Posted September 25, 2005 Share Posted September 25, 2005 1M SDS drill - Screwfix. But if your walls are like ours then you only need to drill the first 100mm or so and then pick the rest out with a bit of re-bar.How about extending the 3/4 bsp tapping on the bottom of the CE upwards with suitable pipe and then mounting the GdS at the end of the pipe, the cold feed connected to this extension. Since the GdS will be directly connected to the CE without any valves between it will act in the same way as if it were screwed directly to the CE tapping and dump excess pressure, very little water is normally involved. You can then run the overflow outunder the eaves into the rainwater gutter.RegardsPeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Redman Posted September 27, 2005 Share Posted September 27, 2005 Our CdE is in the cellar and vents below the level of the mains drain out. We have a UK expansion tank with a small grey water pump with a mercury float switch. When tank is about 30 cms deep this pumps water into a 100 mm soil pipe and 'U' bend before it joins the mains drains.For the amount of water they pump out I would probably dig a 1 metre deep hole insert a verticle section of perforated drain fill with pebles and let it drain in to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 sorry, mistaken post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 [quote]Couple of problems with installations that I am trying to do; I am trying to install a C-E in a location that prevents the use of a drain for the GdS "overflow". Can I use an expansion tank (in the c...[/quote]Forget all the long drills and big boys tools You have been led up the garden path a bit with well meant (but misguided) info.Plumbers have been installing expansion vessels in France for yonks where there is no possibility of draining off the groupe de securité;http://www.castorama.fr/boutique/sku/sku.jhtml?elementId=Casto551554&productId=CastoSA1104&_requestid=85434Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opel Fruit<P><BR>Opel Fruit, Dept. 53<P> Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Even if you don't need to allow the permanent drain, the 7 bar security valve is still a requirement! It is a safety feature - beware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Yes of course it is, as it is on any chauffe eau installation. It may be worth mentioning that dielectric connectors to stop corrosion and also a pressure reduction valve are recommended oftens.Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VJ Posted September 28, 2005 Share Posted September 28, 2005 Punch not a question of (Big Boy's Toys) it is a question of the right tools for the job and sure beats beating a chiesel through a wall and making a messNick I cannot see the point of fitting the expansion vessel if all you need is a long drill Apply the K.I.S method Keep it simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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