4 way switch

[Dc]

Can anyone recommend a decent website showing in simple terms how to wire light switches which work one light from 3 different places. I think this is a 4 way switch. Any help greatly appreciated.

dc 

[Anton Redman]

http://a.gouge.free.fr/bricolage/electricite/telerupteur.htm

Anything more than simple two way instalation AKA 'Va & Vent' ( Go and Come) is outside the NF Norme Francais. Instead they use a 'telerupteur' either on the Tableau d'Electricite and any number of push switches which make the contact once and switch the relay to they lights on or off. Diagram above should explain all. I would advice against using the two gang Castorama switches which they claim you can convertbetrween V & V and Pushes - They did not work for me

I presume you want four switches in a hall way / stairwell to control all the lights. The large sheds Castorama, Leroy Merlin stock telerupteurs smaller quinquleries can be difficult.

[RayB]

[quote]http://a.gouge.free.fr/bricolage/electricite/telerupteur.htm Anything more than simple two way instalation AKA 'Va & Vent' ( Go and Come) is outside the NF Norme Francais. Instead they use a 'te...[/quote]

Interesting. We have switches at the French doors at each end of the kitchen and at the entrance to it. I just replaced one last week and there is no relay involved. They were installed by a French electrician when he re-wired the whole house during restoration about 2 years ago. The same is true with stairway lights on two sets of stairs.

I do remember that the gite we used to stay at did have the relays.

[Anton Redman]

Two way is fine in France and with more than one colour legal for power is probably easier to understand than UK. Three or more way is outside the NF.

[Punch]

Three, four five ..... or as many switching as you like is perfectly possible in France. There are two ways to do it;

1. Using an intermediate  (uk terms) switch, (called a commutator in France). You need to have four wires at any intermediate switch, which are efectively the 2 way strapper wires that you would normally get between a va et vient . Even some French electricians I have met do not know how to wire these properly, and therfore use the method of telerupteur and spring loaded push switches (see below);

2. Using a telerupteur and spring loaded push switches. This method is more popular in France but the poussoir switches often jam up and telerupteur contacts often fail too. Advantages are that you only need two wires at each switch. Switches are parellel wired.

Both methods have their pros and cons, for instance one of my clients didn't want to hear the telerupteur click at night so we changed the wiring for two way and intermediate, without a telerupteur. For a domestic situation with three switches, I would suggest method 1, and for staircase lighting in an HLM , I would use method 2.

I am not sure what Anton means that these are outside of the wiring regulations. My understanding is that all wiring using basse tension ie; up to 1000 volts comes under the NF C 15-100 ? Perhaps he could expalin further

Paul

 

 

 

[Deimos]

[quote]Three, four five ..... or as many switching as you like is perfectly possible in France. There are two ways to do it; 1. Using an intermediate (uk terms) switch, (called a commutator in Fran...[/quote]

QUESTION, NOT EXPLANATION – DON’T DO WHAT THIS POST SAYS AS I’M ASKING IF IT IS CORRECT AND NOT SAYING HOW TO DO IT.

Interesting. Never thought it possible before but my logic makes me think that the intermediate switch connects either straight across or diagonally. Thus in the:

-----A B-----

-----C D-----

Connectors of the intermediate where the pair from the first switch connect to A and C and connectors B and D go off to the next/final switch, the intermediate connects A to B and C to D when one way and A to D and C to B when the other way.

i.e.

-----A-----B-----

-----C-----D-----

or diagonally A -> D and C ->B which I cannot draw in text

Ian

[Punch]

[quote]QUESTION, NOT EXPLANATION – DON’T DO WHAT THIS POST SAYS AS I’M ASKING IF IT IS CORRECT AND NOT SAYING HOW TO DO IT.Interesting. Never thought it possible before but my logic makes me think that the ...[/quote]

My post is correct.

I connected one of these switches up yesterday. The only thing is that I called it a commutator - It is actually called a permutateur in my Alombard catalogue. The reference of the switch is ALOMBARD 82054 . They have four sets of terminals diagonally linked (just like an intermediate switch does in the UK). I'm sure if i looked in my legrand catalogue I would find a simlilar type of switch. As I said, they are not commonly used but are a good alternative to the other poussoir method of wiring multi -position switching.

I've been working with the French regs for nearly 16 years now, so do know what I am talking about

Paul

[Deimos]

I found this which explains it (to me anyway) – I reckon the logic I explained above was correct (closer to their rotary permutator).

http://perso.netpratique.fr/michel.martin47/electr/electricite/documents/le_permutateur.htm

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/bricole-renove/Html/fiche%20technique/elec11a/elecgen.htm

http://electric.system.free.fr/schemas/schemas/sch_permutateur.jpg

http://83.145.127.193/asp/Afficher_Article.asp?ARTICLE=01034070001

http://83.145.127.193/asp/Afficher_Article.asp?ARTICLE=01034070002

(in fact google permutateur on Google.fr and you will find loads.)

Ian

[Jc]

The electrician who wired our house didn't even understand two-way switches!When I moved in there was a switch either end of the lounge controlling the central light supposedly-only one appeared to work until I put a bulb in the patio light.The switch near the windows was a double switch,one was the other end of the two-way and one was the patio-the French leccy came back and eventually gave up.I finally worked out a combination of the wires so that both the two-way and the patio light worked correctly.