PER Problem

[Gyn_Paul]

I have a couple of rads I'm installing which are too near the floor to

bend the 16mm PER flow and returns through 90 degrees. I have been

sold, by my Plumber's Merchants, brass elbows which have the sort of

serrations one would expect to find on a hose connector. These come

with a stainless steel outer sleeve (slightly taperd at one end). I

expected when I assembled one to find that with the sleeve in place,

the elbow would need knocking into the pipe. It doesn't. In fact it's

so loose it can be pulled out again by hand. Does it need some sort of

tool to crimp the sleeve (like the old satellite 'F' connectors) or am

I missing something? The brass itself has '16 x 1.5' on the casting,

but makes no mention of PER or PEX.

I can go back to the Plumber's Merchants in the morning, of course, but

I would like to be speaking from something other than my current

position of total ignorance!

Thanks

paul

[Bobc]

"I have a couple of rads I'm installing which are too near the floor to

bend the 16mm PER flow and returns through 90 degrees. I have been

sold, by my Plumber's Merchants, brass elbows which have the sort of

serrations one would expect to find on a hose connector. These come

with a stainless steel outer sleeve (slightly taperd at one end). I

expected when I assembled one to find that with the sleeve in place,

the elbow would need knocking into the pipe. It doesn't. In fact it's

so loose it can be pulled out again by hand. Does it need some sort of

tool to crimp the sleeve (like the old satellite 'F' connectors) or am

I missing something? The brass itself has '16 x 1.5' on the casting,

but makes no mention of PER or PEX.

I can go back to the Plumber's Merchants in the morning, of course, but

I would like to be speaking from something other than my current

position of total ignorance!

Thanks

paul"

Paul,

You have bought PER connections for the " raccord à sertir’ system.

To fit these to the PER pipe you will need the clamping tool that your supplier should stock.

I have no experience of using this system - I use the raccord à

glissement which uses a clamping tool to slide a brass collar over the

tube and fitting.

I am a bit puzzled by your posting as you have obviously installed PER

pipework elsewhere - what connections did you use for this?

If you want more advice please send me a PM.

Regards,

Bob Clarke

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/grindoux

[Gyn_Paul]

Bob,

I used the 15mm & 22mm plastic stuff from Screwfix when we were in

the UK, and here in the past I've bought both the tube and the fittings

from Brico Depot. Don't know what you call the type of bits, but the

cores of the 1/2" connectors 'screw' into the pipe with an Alan key

capturing the back-nut. Fine quality stuff; but B.D. don't do either

elbows or 'T's, so this raccord a sertir stuff was the only way to get

through 90 degrees in the space available (rads below lowish windows).

It was either that or start in 14mm or 16mm copper and then change to

PER. Being constitutionally bone-idle I opted for the PER route, but I

seem to be piling troubles on troubles! Disque Bleu is the only place

(it seems) in dept 23 which sells anything connected with PER so I'm

stuck with using what they can offer. So I imagine I'll be off to

Disque Bleu in the morning stopping off at the bank to get a wodge of

money for some expensive crimping utile.

Life seemed so much simpler when I just logged onto the Screwfix website and a van rolled up the following morning!

paul

[Nick Trollope]

    The 16 x 1.5 would imply that it is PER sized (16mm PER is 16x13 in copper pipe parlance).

All the PER fittings I have used have had a central insert, which is either screwed into the pipe or is part of the fitting, over which the pipe fits.

[Anton Redman]

Not recommending them versus a proper plumbers merchant but Bricodepot sell their mechanical joints and connectors without nuts and olives. They then sell you either cheap nuts and olives, more expensive 'System American' or relatively expensive connectors for PER. These connectors consist of (in the order you put them on the pipe 1. The outer nut.  2 An Outer sleeve for the plastic pipe  3 An inner sleeve for the plastic pipe with a flange to mate against the washer. The marginally more expensive sets have a hex key  in the innner sleeve which makes them easier to screw in to the pipe and a split washer which should grip better

[Gyn_Paul]

As an add to my previous post, I went back to Disque Bleu this morning

to try to buy the tool to crimp these 'raccord a sertir' connectors and

discovered that it would be 1,014 Euros ttc. (no, that is not a typo ! )

Even given that a professionel would get it considerably cheaper than a lowly particulaire like me, you'd have to be crimping a hell of a lot of joints to make that pay.

I've gone the route of rad valve to 1/2" m/f elbow in brass, then PER

1/2" to  pipe connector, looks a bit clumpy, but will do the job.

Wish I'd stick to good old copper now!

paul

[Bobc]

"Bob,

I used the 15mm & 22mm plastic stuff from Screwfix when we were in

the UK, and here in the past I've bought both the tube and the fittings

from Brico Depot. Don't know what you call the type of bits, but the

cores of the 1/2" connectors 'screw' into the pipe with an Alan key

capturing the back-nut. Fine quality stuff; but B.D. don't do either

elbows or 'T's, so this raccord a sertir stuff was the only way to get

through 90 degrees in the space available (rads below lowish windows).

It was either that or start in 14mm or 16mm copper and then change to

PER. Being constitutionally bone-idle I opted for the PER route, but I

seem to be piling troubles on troubles! Disque Bleu is the only place

(it seems) in dept 23 which sells anything connected with PER so I'm

stuck with using what they can offer. So I imagine I'll be off to

Disque Bleu in the morning stopping off at the bank to get a wodge of

money for some expensive crimping utile.

Life seemed so much simpler when I just logged onto the Screwfix website and a van rolled up the following morning!

Paul"

Dear Paul,

Life in France is never simple!

Now I understand the fittings that you have used before - most of the

bricos in our area are stocking this type (including elbows and ‘T’s

with a key fastener - the downside is that they are very expensive -

probably ok for a small job but not for any major work.

I was surprised to see the price that you were quoted for a crimping

tool - this could only be for a fancy electric model which would be

worthwhile if you were doing the job fulltime as a profession - there

are a number of manual kits available at reasonable prices - for my

manual ‘raccord a glissement’ kit I paid around 200 Euros for the

clamping tool and adaptors for all pipe sizes in a metal case.

The only other essential tool is an expander to enlarge the end of the

PER pipe to enable the fitting to be inserted - in cold conditions, the

PER pipe is impossible to work with without this - around 70 Euros.

Kind regards,

Bob Clarke

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/grindoux