On Line Info for Woodburners

[Gabe]

Does anybody know of French based internet sites that include price lists for woodburning stoves. Particularly interested if you know of suppliers in 32 (Gers) that have web sites. I know that Godin have a place in Ibos Nr Tarbes, but I cannot find their web site.

Gabe

[Deimos]

Here are a few:

http://www.jotul.fr/

http://www.godin.fr/accueil/home.htm

http://www.francobelge.com/gb/indexgb.asp

I doubt they would include prices as many of these companies

sell through dealers who provide the installation (quite important from an

insurance perspective I believe).

Ian

[LesFlamands]

Try http://www.hautefortrenovation.com/villager

[Gabe]

Thanks for the sites, the hautefortrenovation one particularly good as it includes prices. This raises another question though. On their site they have Villager stoves for sale, which in some cases are significantly (up to £400) more than the same model on line in England and this doesn't account for delivery. With this in mind I am tempted to drag one over from England, a lot of hassle, but worth it. If I do this do I have to get somebody to install it for me for insurance purposes, or can I do it myself ? If I pay somebody, any ideas on costs ? Also I am assuming that flue liners are readily available at a similar price, or should I bring this with me ?

Once again thanks for the help

Gabe 

[adrianpmills]

If you are french resident, if you buy a 'flamme verte' quality woodburner in France and have it installed you will qualify for a 50% rebate on the cost of the woodburner.

[Deimos]

My understanding is that if you get one in the UK make sure

it is marked NF (French Normes).  Without this you may not be properly covered by insurance.

Another aspect is that you need to get somebody to install

it.  Make sure you find somebody

prepared to install one you purchase in the UK rather than from them (i.e. from

the installer).

With regard to “lugging one over from the UK”, lugging might

be the right word.  When my Jotul was

installed earlier this month the installer removed everything he could from the

thing (doors, ash trays, etc.) yet the two of us still could only just lift it

the few feet in through the door.

Ian

[Gabe]

Interesting about the rebate. Do you know if there is a time limit to this as I would like to instal now but will not be permanently resident until later this year, possibly after Christmas. Can you claim for more than one stove per house, as we would like two ? Also any idea on how easy or difficult it is to get the rebate. I am assuming that the rebate applies only to the cost of the stove itself and does not include all the peripherals, flues, installations costs etc.

Gabe

[Deimos]

I

believe you submit the paperwork from your installer with your (French) tax

return.  You will then get a lower

payment bill (or even a rebate).  I

would doubt it could be applied retrospectively (i.e. I would doubt you would

get the rebate if done whilst not a French taxpayer.

Don’t

know if it’s the same for everything but in my case the items on the invoice

that are permissible for the rebate are marked with “Rendement > 65%

conforme a la norme EN 13240” and that is the paperwork I submit.  Of course the invoice is dated.

In my case the “peripherals/accessories” are not included

(as they are not particularly energy efficient or renewable resource, etc. -

they are just the accessories).

My understanding is that the tax rebate is not specifically

for wood burner stoves but for energy efficient, renewable resource type

devices.  Thus things like solar panels,

etc. are included.  I have a feeling

(though may be wrong) that you would need to have the thing professionally

installed to get the rebate.

 

You need to be very careful getting bits here and

there.  For example, when they provided

me with my devis, the guy measured the chimney (with his tape measure,

properly, etc.) but when they came to install the tube was not long enough and

they had to go and get another (and at (from memory) €50 per m such things can

get expensive).  If a bit you purchased

does not fit with a bit the installer provides (or is a bit too short) then it

could end up costing you a lot more.

Whenever I have looked at sourcing in the UK it has always

ended up a waste of time and money (thus I’ve never done it).  Purchase price may be a bit lower in the UK

but there always seems quite a lot of negatives that make it not worth

considering.

Ian

[Blade]

if partner is a builder can he install this himself that it is complaint and we can be insured? thanks in advance

[Deimos]

[quote user="Blade"]

if partner is a builder can he install this himself that it is complaint and we can be insured? thanks in advance

[/quote]

I’m no expert and am just repeating what I have picked-up

from others and from my own experiences. 

My understanding is that it is not so much what is “allowed” but more

that if there was an insurance claim related to the wood burner and he

insurance company could show it was an installation/maintenance issue (e.g. did

not comply with regs, etc) then they would not “pay-out”.  From my experience insurance companies do

everything to try and avoid paying.  I

have a claim for €1500 and over the nearly two years to get it settled they

send 3 experts round to try to find some reason why they should not pay.

You may find that the warrantee for a new wood burner is

only valid is installed by a qualified (trained) installer.  I don’t know about getting a tax credit – i.e.

who can issue the appropriate paperwork. 

However, I think the tax people might raise a few eyebrows if your

partner was issuing paperwork for his own tax credit.

I’m sure others know more and better than me so others, do

feel quite free to contradict what I have said.

Ian

[adrianpmills]

As long as it your main residence the rebate applies to spending up to Euros 8,000 per spouse.  Yes, the rebate is only applicable to french tax residents.  The rebate is limited to the cost of the woodburner.  This rebate enables us to buy a half price Jotul.  If you qualify for this I can't see the point of lugging one over from the UK. 

[zeb]

...and why lug one over when there are lots of really good FRENCH woodburners for sale locally!

We got an excellent 13.5 Supra woodburner from the local brico (who could've installed it if we had wanted them to), cost nearly 1000 euros and if we had bought it today we would have got 50% tax credit.

[Gabe]

I wouldn't "lug" one over from choice, but initially a cost of £540 in England, compared to 1,350 euros in France, for exactly the same stove started me thinking. Obviously the rebate makes the French option much more attractive. The only down side being, that if we do not relocate until after Christmas, we cannot claim the rebate, so will have to postpone the installation.

Just one question on the rebate, do you get a refund or is it off set against your tax liability for the year. If the latter, how does this work if you do not actually have to pay tax in that year due to low income whilst we renovate the house. Obviously we would still need to make a tax return.

Anyway, I can always have an open fire in the meantime (before anybody jumps in, yes the chimneys have been swept), it is just more of a pain and very smokey, I had to disconnect the smoke detectors last time and have the windows open, a bit counterproductive.

Anyway thanks to all for the info.

Gabe

[Deimos]

[quote user="Gabe"]

Just one question on the rebate, do you get a refund or is it off set against your tax liability for the year. If the latter, how does this work if you do not actually have to pay tax in that year due to low income whilst we renovate the house.

Gabe[/quote]

I have been told (and next tax return may establish the practice)

that it’s treated like money you have paid in tax.  Thus, if on the tax return you claim €500 rebate and your tax

bill is €400, then you have “overpaid” €100 which should be refunded to

you.  I guess it may be possible that

they would keep this against next years tax liability.  However, I have been told (though not yet

experienced) that you do not lose it if you tax bill is less than the rebate.

(Check that the UK one is NF marked – maybe exactly

the same model, etc. but I am told the NF mark is pretty important)

Ian

[adrianpmills]

If the rebate is in excess of your liability you get a repayment.  UK made woodburners are cheaper in the UK than France.  But my research on makes such as Godin, Jotul, Dovre, Francobelge, Vermont Castings, Morso - which all make premier league woodburners leads me to believe that prices in UK and France are similar.  

[LesFlamands]

[quote user="Gabe"]

Thanks for the sites, the hautefortrenovation one particularly good as it includes prices. This raises another question though. On their site they have Villager stoves for sale, which in some cases are significantly (up to £400) more than the same model on line in England and this doesn't account for delivery.

[/quote]

Hautefort Renovation prices are higher than UK on line prices due to a much lower volume of stoves sold, transport cost to France and ( a small point) TVA is 2% higher. We have recently been able to bring the prices down and are trying to get the delivery costs down. We can also supply all the necessary flue parts including enamelled pipe and liners which can be added to a stove order for no extra delivery charge. All spares and accessories are available

Also, please do not confuse a properly designed woodstove with the 400/500 euro metal boxes sold in most Bricolage stores. There are some better French made models but I've yet to find one that works well.

[powerdesal]

Hi,

We found that we couldn't get the type of stove we liked in France

(after long searches) and shipped a Hunter Herald 8 from UK. Delivery

was pounds 150 and definitely worth it. The weight was 160 kg plus the

pallet and the whole thing was very well packed and totally shrink

wrapped. Delivered by a French carrier to the door and two of us

picked/shoved it into the sitting room, (driver + self). Our builder

will install it and the chimmney flue pipe and specifically said that

self installation is not an insurance issue. The issue is that the flue

MUST be swept every year and a certificate obtained otherwise the

pompiers will ,if called to a fire, fine you and your insurance will

deny all liability. Production of the rammonage certificate will get

you off the hook.

Bought from 'firesonline' and excellent service.

regards