PER Pipe work

[Lespearsons]

When using PER pipes what are the gaines for? Is it to protect the pipe if you bury it in a wall?

Anyone had any problems with PER. For the job I'm doing it seems ideal as it won't be seen and there will be the minimum of joints.

 

With thanks

Keith

[Nick Trollope]

Yes

and

No

HTH!

[Anton Redman]

Gaines also give some insulation which means yopr hot water runs cool down less and there is less chance of pipe runs in unheated barns etc freezing

[LesFlamands]

You need to be careful when cutting the Gaine back that you don't score the pipe as this creates a weak point.

We've had to use the odd screw up type fitting and apart from the cost have not been impressed with the reliability. We generally use the joints with the sliding collar. Bending springs are very useful as well.

[Bobc]

"When using PER pipes what are the gaines for? Is it to protect the pipe if you bury it in a wall?

Anyone had any problems with PER. For the job I'm

doing it seems ideal as it won't be seen and there will be the minimum

of joints.

 

With thanks

Keith"

As Nick has said, the gaine protects the pipe when installed in walls or floors.

The only downside is that it is ugly and can only

really be used for hidden pipework.  Any visible copper pipework

can be easiliy connected though.

A big plus for large installations is the red and blue pipe which avoids confusion over hot & cold!

As Charles has hinted at, there are two PER

systems on the market in France - a very expensive one sold by

Bricomarché, Mr Bricolage, Lapeyre, etc, etc. This involves very small

reels of PER pipe at inflated prices and complicated fittings which

screw together with an allen type key - the alternative is available

from any decent plumbing supplier (www.gapsa.fr) with pipe in 100 or

200m reels and slide-on fittings (raccords a glissement) as Charles has

mentioned.

The downside of the professional system is that you need the clamping tool kit to attach the fittings.

Whichever you go for, it is worth investing in

the tool to flare the end of the plastic pipe to enable you to attach

the fitting - without this it is almost impossible in cold weather.

Overall the PER system is very good and the advantages far outweigh copper for first fix.

Regards,

Bob Clarke

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/grindoux

[Gyn_Paul]

Don't loses sight of the fact that the 16mm PER has an i.d. of - near enough- 14mm, NOT 16mm. Not really an issue for mains pressure hot and cold for reasonable runs, but don't expect a CH circulator to push hot water through miles of 16mm PER like it would through 16mm CU.

Also - like you would expect of plastic - it expands a hell of a lot.

p

[Lespearsons]

Thank you all very much for your replies.

I have seen two versions of the system, one in Mr Bricolage that was called SUP.E.R. Tub and fitted with a insert into the tube tightened with an allen key. The other in Bricomarche appears to be tightened by two nuts tightening against one another compressing an olive (I think). Is that whats meant by a sliding collar?  As I dont have very long runs, pipe cost is not such an important issue, just what one works best.

 

Thanks again

Keith

[Bobc]

"Thank you all very much for your replies.

I have seen two versions of the system, one in Mr Bricolage that was

called SUP.E.R. Tub and fitted with a insert into the tube tightened

with an allen key. The other in Bricomarche appears to be tightened by

two nuts tightening against one another compressing an olive (I think).

Is that whats meant by a sliding collar?  As I dont have very long

runs, pipe cost is not such an important issue, just what one works

best.

Thanks again

Keith"

The two versions sold in the bricos are probably ok if you just have

one job to do. The pipe and fittings are expensive compared with those

available in professional outlets, but this cost can be set against the

tools needed for the clamp on / slide on fittings.

"Don't loses sight of the fact that the 16mm PER has an i.d. of - near

enough- 14mm, NOT 16mm. Not really an issue for mains pressure hot and

cold for reasonable runs, but don't expect a CH circulator to push hot

water through miles of 16mm PER like it would through 16mm CU.

Also - like you would expect of plastic - it expands a hell of a lot.

P"

A good point - I had assumed (always dangerous!) that the question was

re plumbing rather than heating. PER pipe is available in large sizes

and is widely used in our area for underfloor heating.

"You need to be careful when cutting the Gaine back that you don't score the pipe as this creates a weak point."

Virax make two gaine cutters - one cheap plastic one which is next to

useless and a decent solid metal-bodied one with replaceable metal

blades - a good investment.

Regards,

Bob Clarke

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/grindoux

[LesFlamands]

Bob, I thought I'd seen a special gaine cutter somewhere, I shall see if I can order it direct from Virax. I've also been trying to buy a flaring tool, I've ordered one from Robinetterie Hammel but they seem to be permanantly out of stock - dipping the pipe into the kettle for a few seconds seems to work.

[Bobc]

"Bob, I thought I'd seen a special gaine cutter somewhere, I shall see

if I can order it direct from Virax. I've also been trying to buy a

flaring tool, I've ordered one from Robinetterie Hammel but they seem

to be permanantly out of stock - dipping the pipe into the kettle for a

few seconds seems to work.

Regards

 Charles"

Charles, I bought my cutter from Wendels in Villeneuve-sur-Lot, their ref 97020, Virax ref 211640 - 29,79 Euros HT.

http://www.virax.fr/Virax/www/Product.aspx?cat=2479&sscat=2534

Have just got my flaring tool ( pince a emboiture) out of the van, but

strangely it has no makers name on it - I bought it from Wendels a few

years ago for around 100 Euros - as far as I know they still have them

in stock and could probably do mail order - I’ll see if I can find the

Wendels part number on an old invoice. It works very well on all PER

pipe sizes.

I had not thought of using a kettle!

Kind regards,

Bob Clarke

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/grindoux