Undisclosed boundary dispute - grounds to withdraw ?

[AnOther]

I has just been discovered that there is a boundary dispute on our proposed purchase involving some 40sq m of "our" land.

I'm certain the vendor must have known about this because she has been there for at least 6 years and apparently a court action hearing was convened in 2003 at which the complainant failed to turn up. Seemingly though, under French law, this means the matter was just left unresolved to possibly rear it's head again at any time!

I will of course be talking to my solicitor tomorrow (thank god I decided to use one) but I wonder if anyone has had a similar experience, particularly in respect to withdrawing in such circumstances.

Would not the non disclosure of such a germain fact be cause for a force majeur and the vendor perhaps liable for some recompence for the expenses incurred thus far?

There was no clause suspensive in the compromis because we had discussed the deal at great length with the vendor in the Notaires office prior to signing where other more minor matters were disclosed but not this.  

I don't know yet precisely which part of the land is the subject of the dispute but in truth it's not so much the land itself but the prospect of an expensive legal wrangle hanging over the property and the effect on both it's value and resaleability which is the major concern.

[andyh4]

We had a not disimmilar issue with our purchase.  This involved a dispute over a right of way.  The CdV stated there were no rights of way across the property althouth there was an ongoing legal dispute with the neighbour.  We were told we could withdraw if we wished and without penalty.  We chose not to (we can live with our neighbours using the track should the decision go that way).  The Notaire has withheld 8000€ from the sales price to cover any legal expenses that we might incur while the dispute (more like family feud we now find) is resolved - which is still not 4 years on.  The only complication is that the dispute is now essentially 3 way, with the neighbour, the seller and ourselves all involved.  Although we have taken up an avocat to represent us we are keeping a low profile in the dispute.

[Will]

The compromis de vente that you signed should have included a copy of the site plan. If this differs from the actual site, then I would think you have grounds to either declare the compromis invalid (and thus withdraw, with compensation from the seller) or get a geomêtre (surveyor) to mark out the site according to the plan cadastral. Rights of way and rights of access can be more difficult, as in Andyh4's example. If the plan is too small in scale or indistinct it will also make things hard to prove.

However, I read from your post (if I interpret it correctly) that you discussed this before the sale, so it doesn't sound as if anything was hidden (vice caché) and this will weaken your case, particularly with regard to compensation.

Do get your solicitor to sort it out, that's what you are paying for. The agent (if you are buying through one) should also be helping you, you are paying them too and their fee depends on the successful completion of the sale.

[AnOther]

We did have a copy of the site plan but the scale made it hard to precisely determine the boundaries.

There was a right of way issue disclosed which we discussed at length with the vendor, agent and notaire before signing the compromis and were not too worried about but this second dispute is completely new information which has only just been revealed, to quote my solicitor "the Notaire has just been informed by the vendor" meaning in the last day or so.

I've been in touch with the agent this morning and she is going to see the Notaire immediately so watch this space.

If the vendor had deliberately tried to conceal this information do I have a clim for compensation of expenses incurred, not least of which is renting some storage space in the UK in preparation for moving which, if we do withdraw will mean keeping it on for possibly several more months than neccessary.

[Will]

It sounds as if you could well have a case under vice caché or similar (if the seller knew about it but said nothing before now).

I understand that compensation to be paid in case of buyer or seller dropping out is normally 10% of the purchase price. The notaire and agent may have a claim on some of this money so it doesn't mean you would personally get the full 10%. However, if you can prove that you are out of pocket to more than this figure then you would have a case for claiming more. The solicitor should be able to advise you on exactly what, if anything, you can claim.

On the other hand, is it really worth all the hassle? because 40m2 isn't a lot in terms of French land areas.

[AnOther]

[quote user="Will "]On the other hand, is it really worth all the hassle? because 40m2 isn't a lot in terms of French land areas.[/quote]Depends where the 40m2 is and the entire plot is only some 2760m2...!

I've now had an update from the agent and apparently Mme (I'll call her that) was packing up and happened upon a box containing the relevant paperwork.

Hmmmm, judging from the bulging file of papers and she showed us when looking round the house initially we were impressed by her thoroughness and record keeping so quite how this escaped her I don't know but I'll give her the benefit of the doubt for the moment.

It seems that shortly after purchasing the property in 2001 she erected a fence along what she considered to be her boundary to which the owner of a neighbouring, unoccupied plot of land, took umbridge (I was going to say offence but resisted...!).

Mme had a geomêtre out to establish the boundary and he agreed with her and has paperwork to support this.

The neighbour disagreed however and got her own geomêtre but visited the property unannounced and when Mme was not there and the results of this were not disclosed, however it would seem that her geomêtre must have sided with her hence the court case in 2003 at which, for reasons unknown, she failed to appear and that's where it stands.

I'm still not entirely sure which is the disputed piece of land but the agent is visiting the property with Mme tomorrow to establish the facts.

Frankly Mme has a something of a reputation for being "difficult" and I can't help feeling it's all about nothing really and could easily have been sorted over the garden fence (sorry). I'll see what news emerges tomorrow although it doesn't seem as bad a situation as when I first learnt of it yesterday though.

It's confirmed that I can withdraw without penalty if I wish but I have until the 30th to decide by which time hopefully a resolution can be found because we still very much want the house.

[Iceni]

Ern

An update please. Are you still on your course to sign your life away ?

John

not

[AnOther]

Hi and Yes...!!!

Once we'd finally got to the bottom of it it all turned out to be much ado about nothing and the urgency to make the decision was apparently because Mme wanted to know whether she should still book her removals van...!

I doubt now that it would have been grounds to withdraw but as the question did come from the Notaire it seemed to demand attention.

Also PM'ing you.