Everite containining asbestos removal

[Ernie]

We have chunks of broken corrugated Everite in our garden, just below the surface and rising. Anyone know of any registered asbestos removal firms that would come to Haute-Vienne and be prepared to dig for it and dispose of it, so we can get some estimates?

Ernie

[painterman]

Hi Ernie,

you could try asking at your local mairie's office if they know of a company that could do this for you, or perhaps if you have a telephone directory you could pop around to your neighbour's house and maybe they could tell you which companies offer this service in the area and help point one out to you from the directory? I'm not sure if French telephone directories are set out like they are in the UK but it may be worth a try. Or maybe your local tip('dechetterie' I think) would share the names of the companies they see who dispose of asbestos and so you could contact them this way. The Mairie's office will be able to tell you where the local tip is if you're not yet aware of it. Hope this helps.

[bejay]

Do be careful before you make officialdom  aware of buried asbestos. I know no details of French legislation on this matter but in the UK such a site might be classified as contaminated. This means that the whole site would need to be cleared under the most stringent of safety procedures and the waste (tonnes of it) disposed of safely. The costs can be astronomic and they will be your responsibility.

 

To make a more general point it is a spectacularly bad idea for anyone to bury asbestos waste on their own land.

bj

 

[Ernie]

Thanks beejay for the warnings and the finger-wagging. It wasn't us who buried the Everite. I was told by our contractor that the Everite had been removed. Some months later, one of the workman who had been working for the contractor told me that he and the subbie working under the contractor had in fact buried it. He showed me where. I did a little bore hole and sure enough there was some Everite. What's more some pieces have surfaced a metre or so from where I did the bore hole. The contractor in question has said 'I do not accept that there is a large amount of Everite buried in the garden.' Meanwhile, I overheard the workman and the subbie having a row on the phone, where the subbie started shouting that the workman for having told me. The workman explained that it was on his conscience. The subbie said that telling me had endangered his livelihood.

 

So, that's our problem. Some Everite in the garden? All the Everite roof in the garden? How to get it out? Who should pay for it? The contractor claims that we owe him some money on the job as a whole and claims that this sum (7000 euro) would cover the asbestos and all remaining unfinished jobs. (Yes, there are several unfinished jobs (which he admits) and other work of such abysmal standard that we aren't prepared to pay the full amount for.) Anyway, the spec said 'Clear the site'. That would mean removing the Everite to a dechetterie - there's one near Limoges that deals with asbestos. The Everite wasn't cleared. It was buried. In other words it's a whole new ball game and, we would argue, not a matter covered by the original spec.

 

All we wanted was to have a nice holiday home.

 

Very interested in all comments and suggestions on how we should proceed. By the way, the contractor and the subbie are British. The workman is French. I can't say anymore or this post will be deleted.

[painterman]

Hi, again Ernie, I'm sorry that your situation is quite a complicated one and none too pleasant. I've just read the other person's comments too about informing the authorities and the danger of the site being declared contaminated. I don't know how much of the 'stuff' you have had buried there, but would you not be able to put on safety masks for breathing and carefully dig it up and dispose of it yourself at the appropriate dechetterie? I'm sure it would be a long hard job to undertake but it might save you some heartache and headaches in the long run if you tackled the problem slowly over the long term (if possible?). On the property we are trying to buy still, there are fibro-ciment roof tiles and the architect suggested that if we did our own roof repairs (capable of doing this) and disposed of the tiles appropriately that we wouldn't have a problem, but, that if we employed someone else to do the repairs that it would cost alot of money because they would have to be covered insurance- wise and have the correct gear, and dispose of it too at our expense. I'm not sure if this any help to you because it sounds as though you have a difficult situation with the contractors/sub-contractors, but is there anyone you could report the bad contractor to ?- maybe the chambre de commerce/chambre de metiers where these people seem to acquire their siret numbers from. Its just a thought because I don't really know, but there may be someone from those two authorities who can help you with a contractor not fulfilling his obligations correctly, but you may have to be vague about what 'rubbish' the contractor has buried to protect yourself whilst you find out the info' that you need. Good luck.

[Ernie]

Thanks, painterman.

 

Very interested in anyone's thoughts on the merits (or not) of taking the legal route on this matter...

[P]

Not sure of the actual requirements and penalties in France, but assume that they will be similar to the UK.

If you quietly remove this waste - with the potential to harm your health, and asbestosis is something that can happen years later - and dump it you will be committing an offence.

You need to do this correctly and pursue the builder. However, there might be some onus of a 'duty of care' in ensuring that the person you contracted to remove this was suitably qualified. Having said this, I would think that the less disasterous route for you would be to pursue the builder.

Paul

[bejay]

Ernie   

I understood that you had not buried the asbestos. I tried to create some distance between your situation and my comment about burying asbestos but obviously not enough!

But what to do. There seems to me to be one crumb of comfort here.You are in a difficult situation but illegal disposal of hazardous waste is a criminal matter and it isn't you who did it.  I suggest you contact a UK solicitor who specialises in french law (there are plenty of those about) get your facts straight and work out a procedure based on those facts.

bj

 

 

 

[painterman]

Ernie, I'm not suggesting to you that you quietly remove and dump the asbestos anywhere illegally. What our architect said to us was that if we wore appropriate breathing apparatus (which we have and will obtain new again to do that part of our job even though the fibro-ciment roof tiles are not damaged yet (but I'm not willing to take the risk with asbestos hoping that it will be ok up on the roof there for quite a while), and disposed of the asbestos properly, and to us this means packing it up (sealed completely to avaoid any risk to anyone else) and disposing of it properly at the correct dechetterie site that accepts dangerous and potentially hazardous waste. I would not quietly remove it and take it to a normal dechetterie putting other people at risk as that would be extremely irresponsible and I'm sure illegal. You mentioned that near Limoges you knew of a dechetterie that takes this type of waste, it may be useful to you to ask them about correct disposal procedures so that you fully understand what is involved. 'Forewarned is forearmed' so to speak. That way if anyone tries to 'fob you off', you will know that this is what they are trying to do, and you'll be able to correct them. I do not believe that you are underestimating the seriousness of asbestos disposal at all, but more that you are still at the fact finding stage so that you can act in your best interests when you are fully informed- if that means keeping notes and records too, do so, so that you can raise relevant important points that must be dealt with to your satisfaction with your builder, and if you choose the legal route your builder will know that you 'mean business'. Maybe the threat of taking legal action against him for breach of contract when you make him aware that you are fully informed will make him 'amicably' come and finish his contract correctly. If he has buried the asbestos to avoid disposal costs, then the legal system will be able to do deal with him. I expect that when I remove the fibro-ciment roof tiles that I will have to pay for disposal- how much it is I don't know, but I certainly would not try to dodge the proper method of disposal. I hope you can work things out to your satisfaction.