KathyC Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 B&Q have reduced their split air conditioning units and we are thinking of buying at least one to fit in our house in France. I wonder if anyone could answer the following questions for me?1. Is there any reason why an English air conditioning unit wouldn't be suitable for use in France?2. B&Q offer both Easy Fit air conditioners (suitable for fitting yourself) and those that need to be fitted by a qualified engineer. What would be the difference in the way these function?3. I have heard that these are not too expensive to run as heating in the winter. Does anyone have any ideas about running costs?4. The current price of the one I'm thinking of (Easy Fit, 12,000 btu) is £436 with 10% discount. How would that compare with prices in France?Sorry about the list of questions but I thought I'd get it all sorted out at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llwyncelyn Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Due obviously to the heat and the fact that my wife suffers from a long-standing illness and where humidity is a problem we have just bought two air conditioning units. One from our local Intermarche made where else but in China and for 179 euros. The other the Siemens and for our bedroom from a dealer in Paris at 819 euros. That was made in Spain.The Chinese one has a better energy efficiency level that the Siemens! However we understand running costs to be around 10ppm. We may be wrong or should I say our translation of the French may be wrong. Hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wozza Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 The one that needs to be fitted by the engineer probably has no refrigerant in it (a mixture of various refrigerant gases) - this would probably be a better unit that can be serviced and have the refrigerant changed when required (I believe every 4 to 5 years, but don't quote me), may also be more efficient if better refrigerants are installed - worth checking on the self-assembly unit if it is easily maintained, or 'sealed for life'. As with everything, I guess you get what you pay for.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Redman Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Brico Depot offer a reversable DC inverter rated at 3920 Watts cooling for Euros 589 in energy classification 'A' They also have a unit rated at 3500 Watts cooling and 3850 heating rated as 'D' for Euros 265. From memory these are roughly equivalent to 12000 BTU. Both units have valves which enable the refrigerant to be changed / topped up. The only drawback to fitting was carrying 32 kilos of unit up 5 metres of ladder. I would be very suprissed if the B & Q units are much different. I helped a friend fit a B & Q unit last June and the only difference was that the hoses were prefilled and had an overcentre fitting to attach them. The Brico Depot ones used coventional soft copper with flared hoses and required you to purge them. The B & Q units needed two trips to the Depot at Sutton to find a unit which worked straight out of the box. The helpline spoke English and were not supprised that the hoses had been accidently emptied. The Brico Depot had a fairly complex purge procedure but worked first time and is great. Provided you fit them correctly the Brico Depot units have a five year guarantee for the comopressor and two years for everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyn_Paul Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 I've just installed 2 of the Brico split packs. The slightly smaller 10,000BThU ones. They are easy to install, you can mount the compressor unit higher or lower than the internal evaporator unit, but the one thing the dvd and manual don't stress is the necessity to run the little plastic drain out at a slight angle. I made the mistake of thinking it was pumped and I could run it up into the attic with the copper flow and return and the mains cable. Er No !! I was flabberghasted at the volume of condensate it produced ! Gallons. Apart from that its dead easy to fit. The compressors are over-gassed, using the excess to flush the air out of the pipes and the evaporator unit. When you've connected the plumbing you simply open the grub screw in the valve (with the aid of an Allen Key supplied) a quarter-turn for a count of three, then close it again. Now press the schroder valve (like on a cycle tyre) to let the air out until the hissing stops. Do this all again one more time. Now fully open the grub screws on both valves, put the caps back on and turn it on. BLISS ! a cool bedroom to sleep in.I've thrown the boxes away but - from memory - they draw 800w electricity running and produce 2400w of heat or 2000w of cool (can never get my head round that last one).Perfectly capable of cooling to 18C a 4m x 5m bedroom the attik above which was 49.2C this afternoon.Anton, I agree the hardest part is getting it up the side of the house. I carried one of them up the ladder holding the unit in my left hand by the neat little hand-hold which is the top of the cable door. Couldn't stop my forearm cramping up for 5 hours!p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyC Posted July 26, 2006 Author Share Posted July 26, 2006 GynWould you mind telling me what you paid? Also,if you can mount the outer unit lower than the inner unit, why did you have to carry it up a ladder. The B&Q one says that it can be mounted within 4m. of the inner one. I thought that meant it could go at ground level. Am I being naive? Or just plain stupid!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babnik Posted July 26, 2006 Share Posted July 26, 2006 Is there anyway of realistically hiding the outside unit? Ours would have to go on the front, and that would spoil the whole feel of the house!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baz Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 [quote user="KathyC"] Also,if you can mount the outer unit lower than the inner unit. The B&Q one says that it can be mounted within 4m. of the inner one. I thought that meant it could go at ground level. [/quote]Kathy, I know the B&Q units fairly well but decided to purchase via Ebay where you can usually find a similar unit for far less. The outside unit can be positioned on the ground provided the 4m. piping is of sufficient length and this is best as it is very heavy and special wall brackets would have to be purchased if attached above ground level. If you buy a unit upto 12000BTU then it can be plug directly into an existing plug, units above this amount will require an electrical spur to be installed. IMO the hardest job is drilling the 7-8cm hole through the outside wall, I hired an industrial drill but B&Q have the special cutters at about £15 but you must have a powerful drill. One tip, once you have made your hole use a small length of plastic drain pipe to line the hole as this will protect any possible damage to the pipping. Finally, I suggest you purchase an easy fit unit as it is already gassed otherwise you will need the services of an Air Conditioning engineer to set it up and fill the gas, an unnecessary additional cost. The heating side is also possibly the most cost effective way of heating a room.Baz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 Have just bought and fitted a 9000 BTU split unit from Brico Depot on sale, I paid 129 euros or about £85 so was very pleased.Fitting was simple and I would agree with all the comments above except that the instructions did mention fitting the drain tube at an angle (it says to drill the hole at an angle) and that the video has some essential info missing from the instructions and vice versa.My unit is advertised as suitable for 25-28 M2 but is in fact cooling 40m2 as I have yet to fit the internal partition walls, it dropped the room temp from 35 degrees to 18 degrees during the hottest afternoon here so I think they are underspecified.The gas can be replaced or recharged and the manual explains the procedures including gas weights and pressures, because if you use the 6 metre extension hose pack (the unit comes with 3.6m) then it needs to be topped up. I would not be surprised to find that the T.T.C. cost of a recharge around here would be more than the price I paid for the unit.The current price at Brico-Depot for a 12000 BTU unit is 268 euros I think, the B&Q ones would cost more because of the pre-charged hoses using "dry break" fittings (if not someone would sue for freeze burns to their hands despite the manual saying wear gloves) the rest of the price difference is the usual UK mark up/rip off especially considering that Brico-depot and B&Q are both part of the Kingfisher group - try comparing prices of bathroom fittings!Fitting was simple for a reasonably competent person (me) you will need to drill a 65mm hole through the external wall (the liner came with my kit). I had to drill through a reinforced steel lintel (which I cast in place last year) and this took 2 hours with a diamond core drill including cutting through the two 8mm steel reinforcing rods. A straightforward brick or parpaing wall would be significantly quicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyn_Paul Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 [quote user="KathyC"]GynWould you mind telling me what you paid? Also,if you can mount the outer unit lower than the inner unit, why did you have to carry it up a ladder. The B&Q one says that it can be mounted within 4m. of the inner one. I thought that meant it could go at ground level. Am I being naive? Or just plain stupid!?[/quote]3 units plus 3 mounting kits (which is the proper heavy-duty wall brackets pre-drilled to accept the vibration-killing rubber mountings etc) came to something like E580 (something like that: bought a bunch of other stuff and can't see what I've done with the facture at the moment) so if you think E200 a piece you'll have some change.The supplied tubing is 12 foot long which wouldn't have reached the ground, and even then there would have been the piping running up the side of the house. I had been tempted to mount them on the side walls (difficult to explain exactly, but our building are barn-house-barn, all of differing heights and roof lines which means on the house side walls there is a wedge-shape of exposed wall). I didn't in the end mount them here because: 1/ the right-hand unit would be facing towards our neighbours and I didn't at that time, know how noisy they were (hardly at all, it turns out, but you can't run them before you connect the plumbing, and once done you can't disconnect them and decide to put them somewhere else without the services of an engineer to re-gas the unit).2/ I didn't have sufficient safe ladders to carry the unit up and onto the barn roof (no ladder hooks)3/ our house is no architectural masterpiece and I didn't feel it would make it look any worse with two boxes on the front.If I was building from the ground up I'd certainly make provision for internal trunking to carry AC pipes. I don't believe these hot summers are going away any time soon.On a side issue....We live in 23 (La Creuse) which is undulating and lightly wooded, (mixed broadleaf woodland, not bloody.conifers) sufficiently so that most farmers have access to a patch of woodland for logs to cut and store. However. each spring we see more and more wooded corner cut and cleared (NOT coppiced); more and more of te mixed wood hedgerows grubbed up, and not the slightest evidence of any re-planting. Indeed I'd go as far as to say the only people who plant trees are the incoming Brits. What's up with people? Heating oil is never going to see the cheap side of 50c/litre again and in 20 year's time they are all going to wake up one spring and discover there's no more free fuel wood to cut!My solution? Look for a small piece of woodland to buy and manage.I know there are h-u-g-e areas of the country where this whole argument is academic, as there's no wood to speak of anyway (I do believe, driving from Poitiers to Paris, I've seen smaller fields in Ioha !), but equally there are departements which are as wooded as this one. What's going on round your way ?paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Redman Posted July 27, 2006 Share Posted July 27, 2006 Quick warning Brico Depot in Bordeaux have a notice saying the have sold out of AC units due to the heatwave and the next deliveries will be in September. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyC Posted July 27, 2006 Author Share Posted July 27, 2006 As I'm not over again until September, that's quite good news for me.I thought they wouldn't have any more in until next year and that I'd have to wait til then. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KathyC Posted July 28, 2006 Author Share Posted July 28, 2006 Thanks a lot to all those who took the trouble to answer me so fully. I now feel far more knowledgeable about air conditioning in general and feel I have learnt several useful little "tricks" for when I (or someone else) comes round to fitting the units. I'll also give B&Q a miss and will look at ordering in France, or possibly on ebay.Thanks againKathy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Janet Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 I'm finding this thread very interesting as I have been researching Split A/C for a couple of weeks now, and would like to DIMyself but have been a bit wary. It seems though, that it isn't that daunting.A couple of questions: (actually 3, -there may be more...!)Does each unit have to have its own power supply, or is the outside unit fed by a cable from the indoor unit?Are the connecting pipes made of copper or plastic, if copper, is it dodgy bending the pipe where it comes out of the wall?What do you do with the spare length of piping if the outdoor unit is mounted nearer to the indoor unit than the standard pipe length? (usually 4 mts, I understand)Thanks for any helpDavid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Redman Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Does each unit have to have its own power supply, or is the outside unit fed by a cable from the indoor unit? Mine came supplied with a four core cable with colourcoded wires for linking the two unitsAre the connecting pipes made of copper or plastic, if copper, is it dodgy bending the pipe where it comes out of the wall? The copper pipe is very flexiable about 8 mm you have to be careful not to kink it but it is not difficultWhat do you do with the spare length of piping if the outdoor unit is mounted nearer to the indoor unit than the standard pipe length? (usually 4 mts, I understand) . My unit said it must be left at 4 metres so I simply did not fully unroll it and insulated the coils next to the oputside machine.From a brief look at Castorama and Leroy Merlin all split units followed the same genral principles. Hope it stops raining soon so I can restart building my kitchen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Janet Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Thanks Anton.I'm being a bit thick here, I know, but which unit is plugged into the mains?Another question: (I did warn you...!)Drilling the 6 - 7cm hole for the pipes and cabling: Does the hole borer simply fit onto an ordinary, extra long, masonry bit? (I'm talking about getting through a rouge brique wall about 35cms thick)CheersDavid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Redman Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 The inside unit is plugged into the mainsDepends how rich you are feeling but even if I only have one unit to install I would probably buy an SDS drill and the correct size bit from Brico Depot. You either need the trapanning bit which cuts a 40 mm hole or to cut a line of 14 mm holes for insulated copper in , insulated copper outout, condensed water out and finally power out to the unit. Or drill a pilot hole and enlarge with a hammer and chissel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gyn_Paul Posted July 28, 2006 Share Posted July 28, 2006 Just to add my experiences to Anton's full reply.. one of my units I mounted near the outside so I have ended up with a double loop of copper just behind the condenser.The other one (the one where I discovered you can't run water uphill) has the plumbing run up into the attic and then out and down to the condenser, so the excess is looped in the attic. I did toy with the idea of cutting the copper pipes to length and re-belling the ends but discovered that my flaring sets wouldn't grip one of the pipes tightly enough so ended up leaving them the full length, as the chances of my making a high-pressure gas-tight joint were pretty slight !paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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