water softening unit

[mint]

we are in the charente maritime and the water there is very hard.  having lived in wales for some 14 years, we are used to lovely soft welsh water

i find the water in our french property very hard and playing havoc with my hair and skin.  consequently, we would like to install a water softener unit. 

anyone has any ideas of cost or effectiveness?

thanks all.  would be lovely not to have a kettle which needs de-furring every couple of days!

[Chezstevens]

We bought a ''waterside'' unit ten years ago - still going strong.  Uses less than 5kg a month.  Absolutely no problems and the washing machine etc are delighted!

[mint]

can you please clarify a couple of things re your message.

1) what is a waterside unit

2) where do you get one

3) approximately how much does it cost to buy and run

4) can you fit it yourself, that is, without involving an "artisan" (not having much joy with our artisans at present)

sorry that's 4 questions so double a "couple"!

thanks for helping

[Dave Plumb]

Waterside is just one of the makers name for the salt based softeners, salt based are more expensive to buy and run and the jury is still outas to effectifness of long term overall saving but will give you the feeling of soft water, you must have a dedicated drinking tap as some salt residue will be contained in the water and is bad for your heart.

The other units work on magnet fields there are two types , Magnetic this is normally a cheaper option but will only work at point of use so you may need several to cover all options.

Electromagnetic, these are more expensive but are a one off unit fitted at point of entry to the property before first draw off, will protect stored water, there is no running costs, ( except the ones that plug in, much less than a light bulb to run)they do not add anything to the water and cannot be harmfull, they do not soften the water but put the scale into suspention so as not to stick to anything and it runs away down the sink, they are not as effective as salt based units and scalling will happen over a long period but the scale will be loose and easily removed.

Hope this sheds some light

 

Dave

[mint]

dave, thanks for the info, and i love the name "plumb" for someone who knows so much about things to do with tap water.  here in wales, you'd probably be called "dai tap" or some such.

 

[Chezstevens]

Our ''waterside'' softener was about £250 to buy.  It is not difficult to fit but you do need to keep one supply pipe isolated from the unit for drinking water.  The waterside unit automatically cycles when it needs to and costs <3 euros a month.  No scaling no fuss - even buzzes when you need to put more salt in its reservoir.

[Dave Plumb]

Not for the first time I have been called 'Dai'  as I am half from the valleys as everyone further back came mainly from around Tenby and Soundesfoot area.

Sweet 17

Mail me and I will give the pro's and con's to hep  you make a choice of units

 

Dave

[Graham & Brenda]

I am interested in the magnetic type. Can anyone advise me if they available in France - if so what are they called, who sells them and approx. how much please? thanks,

 

 

[napoleon]

The magnetic field type will (may) fix the hardness so that it does not fur-up your pipework and boiler. I keep getting advertising leaflets in the UK about them and the cost is about £75.

We use a salt exchange watersoftener that does not need any form of electrical connection. It is manufactured by Kinetico and costs about £1000 for the most modern, compact version. We have had one for about thirty years and now treat it as essential to our life style. Running costs are about £1 per week if we are at home full-time. The main advantage is the luxury of soft water for clothes and skin. Apart from the cost, the disadvantage on installation is the need for an untreated water tap for all cooking and drinking.

                                                 Alistair

[Vaughat]

sent you a pm

[Michelle28]

I recently approached the builders of our new house to see how we could sort out the problem of the scaling etc in all of our appliances.  They have come up with the following devis:

Fourniture et pose d'un adoucisseur fildo new disign tete volumetrique de 20 litres y compirs raccords divers et main d'oeuvre

Montant 2657.89 Euros

I have kept the spelling exactly the same so not sure if its supposed to say New Design or not.  My questions are: what exactly are they proposing to put in? and doesn't it seem awfully expensive?  As I have been reading previouse posts I had expected a figure in the hundreds rather than the thousands.  Any advice would be really appreciated.

Many thanks

Michelle

[Gluestick]

Relative "Hardness" or "Softness" of water is simply a function of what mineral salts are being carried with it in solution. The normal enemy is derived from chalk/limestone, which adds calcium salts in various ways.

Salt-based water "Softeners" have always concerned me, since all your doing, really is precipitating out, early, calcium etc salts in exchange for other salts. (I say early, since deposition of scale, is simply the natural precipitation of the salts contained in compound in the water, which then line the pipework/appliances etc). None of these is exactly good for human beings; or white goods dependant on mains water.

Looking at the prices quoted, I would personally consider installing a reverse osmosis filter. These have gained in popularity over the past ten years and the prices have plummeted.

Reverse Osmosis works on the basis of Osmosis - strangely enough![:)] - which is a wierd phenomonenon, whereby a liquid confronted by a semi-permeable membrane (of the correct type), "Osmotes" through the membrane at molecular level. In the case of water, H2O passes through leaving all the impurities behind.

Reverse Osmosis filters were first developed for Nuclear submarines, creating totally potable water from seawater. They are used extensively, today, in cruise ships, all types of naval and merchant vessels and even on docksides to provide drinking water bunkering facilities. They are also by the military in areas of conflict where natural water sources might be contaminated or brackish.

Effective Reverse Osmosis filters require a pressure pump to ensure correct flow through the membrane. Whilst those which function from the main water pressure, alone, can be reasonable, I am not sure of their true viability.

Advocates of these filters for domestic use, point out all the nasty substances hazardous to human health, curently contained in tap water: these can include consistent minor traces of  organo-phosphorus pesticides,  selective (hormone) herbercides, various industrial source heavy metals, dioxins, pharmaceutical drugs, chemotherapy, birth control etc, as "treated" sewerage is invariably pumped back into river systems and mixed with industrial effluent, agri-chemicals leaching through from the water table. And water company also tap into the rivers to feed their "Treatment" plants!

Critics of Reverse Osmosis claim the water tastes "Flat", since it has been de-ionised, neutralised etc.

To be really safe, household drinking water should also pass through a high powered Ultra Violet filter, prior to the tap, as this kills any bacteria, microbes etc which tend to grow in static water and pipes.

As a point of interest, Screwfix (amongst others) sell a domestic water filter array, 5 stage including Reverse Osmosis, for £199.99 designed for drinking water only. The caveat about relative filtering pressure must be remembered, however.

Whole-of-House systems would obviously cost considerably more.

Much data on the web.

Water reference source here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_water

 

[Cat]

I have a question too, if I may.

We're having a salt type water softener system in the new house we are having built.  When I asked the plumber who will be fitting it for a seperate tap (for unsoftened water) for drinking and cooking water, he looked at me in amazement!  My other half, who is French, also seemed to think I had taken leave of my senses.  I have also spoken about this to another supplier of salt based water softener systems at a trade show, and he to was amazed that I would not want to drink the softened water.

I have always believed, rightly or wrongly, that water softened by a salt-based system should not be used for drinking or cooking, and what's more, to me it tastes horrible.  I know that the salt is only used for cleaning the system, and not for actually softening the water, and this seems to be the basis of the arguements against installing a seperate tap.

Am I wrong, or are they?  If anyone have some facts (rather than opinions) I would be most grateful for a little enlightenment [8-)]

 

[Gluestick]

Personally, I would have nothing like a salt-based softener, since there are better ways to achieve the desired result.

Manufacturers of these appliances and those who sell them, seem to universally decry potential problems. I wonder why? [;-)]

Much on the web about health risks. A Random sampling here:

http://clearwatergmx.com/saltbased.html

http://www.inspect-ny.com/septic/watersoft.htm

http://www.southernwater.co.uk/pdfs/educationAndEnviro/drinkWaterQuality/SoftenersWRCnote.pdf

http://www.water-research.net/hardness.htm