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Compulsory ceiling rose in centre of room ? Also..


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Can anyone either point me towards a relevant thread, or clarify the

current position regards ceiling lights. Is it still necessarry to have

a ceiling rose in the centre of a room? I actually just want 4 x 12v

recessed spots per room evenly spread out. I'm also getting conflicting

local info about the number of sockets I can have per circuit - with

either a max of 5 being mentioned, or others saying it;s merely about

the total load of each circuit.

Also, I presume I can run a washing machine and a dishwasher on the same 20a circuit?

Just one more while I'm at it ( sorry ), I have two adjacent shower

rooms, can I run their lighting circuits together, or do I need to run

individual ones?

Many thanks for any advice anyone can give me.

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I think ( cannot find the reference in my textbooks at the moment) that a centre ceiling light fiiting ( ie a rose ) is a requirement of the normes. My interpretation is that, whilst it may be there, you do not have to use it.

Regarding sockets, promotelec rules say 5, the Normes allow 8, it is nothing to do with the total load on the circuit per se. If the circuit wiring is 1.5 mm sqr then the limit is 5, if its 2.5mm sqr then its 8 ( Norme NF C 15-100). The max amps per circuit for that is 16A if fused or 20A if a disjoncteur. Oddly enough, a double socket counts as a single, a triple as two and a quadruple as two. Very odd!, ie 16 outlets on one 20A circuit - I dont recommend that route.

A washing machine should have its own 20A disjoncteur (16A fuse) with 2.5 mm sqr conductor. A dishwasher similarly. Not the same circuit.

In terms of lighting, 8 lighting points on a 1.5mm sqr circuit with a 16A disjoncteur ( or 10A fuse), no mention that I can see regarding where the lights are.

My reference is :- L'Installation Electrique, pages 197 and 213. By Thierry Gallauziaux & David Fedullo. Comme Un Pro Series.

All advice given in good faith without guarantee.

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I've just had a garage on my property integrated to make it into living acommodation. It is a large room, 54 sq m and has no central light fitting, but 4 points lumineuse dispersed across the ceiling. It was done by a large well established French company with ful guarantees.
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Not a central ceiling rose in sight at chez nous and no queries from our delightful French electrician! He loved my lighting system (mostly Ikea) and was more concerned about me not wanting TV aerial sockets and phone points in every room!
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Thanks all, much as expected - complete contradictions! Great info on the seperate dishwasher & washing machine etc...

A recent mini book from a Brico shop actually does not say a ceiling rose, but still other people say absolutely!

Any offers on the bathroom circuits?


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Normes only call for all principal rooms and entranceways to be lit, there is no restriction as to how other than each room should have it's own switch.

The shower lighting circuits can be run as one as long as they do not form part that exceeds total number as above, but please check especially minimum siting clearances from zone 1 (600mm) if using mains, as well as splash and earthing ratings for your fittings.These are strictly controlled.

(By the way you should have Type A disjoncteur for washing machine)


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Don't wish to be contradictory (seem to be doing alot of this recently), but;

There is a requirement for all rooms to have at least one light fitting (there is a list, and it is not exhaustive, but there are no exceptions). However, it only needs to be a "fixed" light and in a couple of cases, as switched socket can be substituted (living rooms & bedrooms, I think).

There is no reference to the type of light, so I assume you can use a single eyeball downlighter (or whatever) if you wish.

BTW, the nearest thing you will find to a ceiling rose is a DCL - which are mandatory for all "new" installations.


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  • 3 weeks later...

Just looked at our setup. the house has over 3 dozen 12 volt downlighters, each with it's own transformer (former owners were French). They are arranged in groups of 6 max, i.e. 4 disjoncteurs for the 24 in the lounge, rest according to room layout. Then there are the relays to switch the lights, and the telerupteurs to enable multi switching, not forgetting the disj for the switching circuit, takes up 2 rows of the 6 on our panel.

For you I would suggest a circuit for each room


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