Flooding - Advice on Pump

[Barry]

My garage is partly subterranean. After three or four days of heavy rain, as we have recently experienced, it floods. It appears that when the water table rises sufficiently high, the water seeps through the breeze block wall and the junction of wall and floor. As a temporary measure (because it will take forever to get a Maçon in this neck of the woods) I am considering a pump. The level of flooding is about 3” or 4” over the area of a standard double garage. I have never bought a pump in my life and am looking for advice. Should I buy petrol or diesel? Or would electric be easier to use? What power? Can anyone recommend a particular make and model that’s available here in France and that a complete pump-novice can simply work. I need to pump the floodwater from the garage well clear of the vicinity, say 20 metres. I would be so grateful for anyone’s help. Thank you.

[Pierre ZFP]

Since you don't have very much water to move (not a swimming pool full) I would go for an electric one designed for this very purpose.  Available at all the Brico, a medium size one will leave plenty of change from 100 euros.  They have a built in or floating switch so they automatically turn off when no more to pump (down to a few mms) so fit and forget - they will pump 20 metres (horizontal) easily and 5 or 6 metres up too.

[Gluestick]

You obviously and unfortunately have some serious water barrier remedial work to do here.

Meantime, I would dig a small "Sump" and fit the pump within. If the sump is located immediately next to the wall and you dug out semi-circular gutters right along the wall, this should collect the ingress of water as the water table rises.

Thereafter with a float switch and electric pump is fully autonomous.

Only aspect to check is the pump's "Head": i.e. what height will it pump to and is this enough to discharge your sump water?

 

[Weedon]

To prevent the water coming in, could you dig a trench around the outside of the walls, lay some land drain pipe (it has holes in it) in the trench and take it out into the garden. Back fill the trench with gravel. If you are capable of digging and have access around the walls you don't need to be skilled.

[powerdesal]

Possibly something along these lines

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?cId=101407&ts=16495&id=65845#

Sorry, but dont know how to make it a 'link'

Used in conjunction with the sump suggested above it should give you breathing space to carry out the necessary structural external draining works.

[Barry]

May I thank everyone who has responded. I am truly grateful.

[AnOther]

If your flooding is a result of a rising water table then however much you pump it the problem isn't going to go away until the water table falls.

I have this problem with the pit in my garage here in UK. It's only the second time it's happened in about 5 years but with the amount of rain we've been having it's got about 2" of water in it and although I pumped it out initially because I needed to use the pit, within 2 or 3 hours it was flooded again.

It's going down very slowly but in the meantimne I now wear my wellies...!

[AnOther]

[quote user="powerdesal"]Possibly something along these lines

www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?cId=101407&ts=16495&id=65845#

Sorry, but dont know how to make it a 'link'

Used in conjunction with the sump suggested above it should give you breathing space to carry out the necessary structural external draining works.
[/quote]You need to be a bit careful with these type of pumps because they are intended to be submersed and don't like running dry. To use it in a sump and have the float switch operational the sump would have to be about as deep as the pump is high so the switch can float above it.

PS:

To make a link just make sure it starts with  www not  http://

[cooperlola]

Then why does this work, Ernie

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/TopicsActive.aspx

[Chezstevens]

How does what work?

regards

Vern

[cooperlola]

Sorry, I should have quoted the appropriate part of Ernie's post.  I got the impression that he felt that it was the http bit which prevented link posting.  Whereas, I find it doesn't affect it, hence my example.  Must stay on topic!

[Cassis]

BOT

There are dozens of submersible pumps designed just for this purpose so I would not get too worried.  This is not exactly rare in France.  As long as the submersible electric pump is located at the lowest point of flooding and the inlet remains underwater at the point when when the float switch cuts it off (so maybe a small, shallow pit may need to be excavated at the lowest point) all should be okay.

[AnOther]

[quote user="cooperlola"]

Then why does this work, Ernie

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/TopicsActive.aspx

[/quote]Err yes bogey there I'm afraid. Something strange about the original URL though because if you go to quote the post and delete http:// the link becomes live but if you type it back in again it stays so, tres extaordiaire....

[Alan Zoff]

The electrician in the village said it was normal for the base of the (external) cellar steps, and sometimes the cellar floor itself, to get a small flood after there has been a lot of rain. (I first discovered it at midnight when I descended the steps in the dark, only to find myself paddling unexpectedly.) The solution, as has been suggested, was a small electric pump, placed in an excavated sump (with a metal grille over the top).

I bought the pump from Lidl for well under £20 which is powerful enough to pump the water up to the nearest drain. It has an auto float switch but I can easily switch it on an off manually when required from the mains plug situated in the kitchen.

[powerdesal]

[quote user="ErnieY"]

[quote user="powerdesal"]Possibly something along these lines

www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?cId=101407&ts=16495&id=65845#

Sorry, but dont know how to make it a 'link'

Used in conjunction with the sump suggested above it should give you breathing space to carry out the necessary structural external draining works.

[/quote]You need to be a bit careful with these type of pumps because they are intended to be submersed and don't like running dry. To use it in a sump and have the float switch operational the sump would have to be about as deep as the pump is high so the switch can float above it.

PS:

To make a link just make sure it starts with  www not  http://

[/quote]

No you dont, if the float switch is integral in the casing, it all depends on the design of the individual submersible pump.

[AnOther]

Clearly so.

Pumps of this type and price point usually come with a seperate float switch on a short flying lead.

http://www.gardencut.co.uk/product_details.asp?pid=1489

Due to the absence of a visible float switch on the pump you linked to I would venture to say that it does not have any sort of cutout at all.

Another very important point I should have mentioning is that submersible pumps generally rely on being submersed for motor cooling so are fundamentally unsuitable for the intended purpose of draining a flooded floor UNLESS installed in a sump of some sort.

[powerdesal]

[quote user="ErnieY"]

Clearly so.

Pumps of this type and price point usually come with a seperate float switch on a short flying lead.

http://www.gardencut.co.uk/product_details.asp?pid=1489

Due to the absence of a visible float switch on the pump you linked to I would venture to say that it does not have any sort of cutout at all.

Another very important point I should have mentioning is that submersible pumps generally rely on being submersed for motor cooling so are fundamentally unsuitable for the intended purpose of draining a flooded floor UNLESS installed in a sump of some sort.

[/quote]

I agree that the pump I linked to was not fitted with a cut out, however, I did say "possibly something along these lines", not "use this one".

One does tend to expect some application of intelligence, not blind "obedience" to a suggestion.

Perhaps you would be happier with this:- http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/DRSWP125IFS.html

Again, my apolgies for the lack of direct link.

It should also be noted perhaps that I also said "Used in conjunction with the sump suggested"

No doubt I should stick to just reading the posts and not making attempts at helpful suggestions, leaving that aspects to those who consider themselves more expert, unless of course anyone needs advice on desalination technology or large power generation.

[Barry]

May once again express my gratitude for all your advice and comments. Above all, I have a feeling of reassurance that this is not an unique problem in France. When the garage first flooded I was plunged into despair (knowing how hard it is to get local artisans to fix this sort of problem.) Many, many thanks and I must say how good it is to have access to this forum.