2 or 3 phase??

[Nicos]

Could someone please explain very simply the difference between 2 and 3

phase electricity and when would I prefer one to the other?

Thanks!

[Danny]

have a look here

Danny

[fulcrum]

Nicos

Its either single or three phase.

Single is phase means one live conductor and one neutral conductor feeding your consumer unit, meter etc.. Three phase means three separate live conductors and one neutral feeding your consumer unit, meter etc..

Single phase is what most people have in France if they're not needing lots of power. This is the prefered solution for you as it less complicated and less hazardous

Three phase is normally provided if EDF cannot give you all the power you need on a single phase.

[Jonzjob]

[quote user="Jane and Danny"]

have a look here

Danny

[/quote]

Danny, I didn't get past the first few words of the Wikky explanation.

Phase and ground!!!!   NO WAY. You would take your RCD, or what ever it's called here, out every time you switched anything on. It seems to be and American thing and highlights the fact that we are seperated by a totally different language. If you connect anything to phase and ground you are asking for trouble. Phase and neutral!!!!!!!!!!!

The explanation is obviously for the States. If you were to connect phase to phase then you would have 380 volts not 220 volts on yer tele, kettle and all else in your house and it would go BANG. It happend in the U.K. when a street rewire was screwed up and phase/phase was conected instead of phase/neutral. The electrifical suppliers were lucky not to kill someone! Apparently there are places in France where you can get 120 volts, but I would bet they are vanishing quickly. There are also a fair number of houses that have 3 phase connected too.

 

[Nicos]

Ok , thanks for this. I found the Wikkepedia info very confusing but I

gather that 3 phase could be dangerous if I messed with it then ! But

other than that can anyone tell me why it seems to be recommended

almost everywhere to

change from Triphase to monophase ? Our house was substantially

renovated 20 years ago yet still

retains triphase which seems to work perfectly well throughout, so I'm

not sure why we ought to change it ( which I gather we can, quite

simply by paying EDF a fee to do it) ? All the usual domestic

appliances seem to work well.  Maybe if we do work that needs more

electrical work we'd have an issue?[8-)]

Nicos

[Anton Redman]

Except for lathes, saw benches, very big electric cookers  and milking machines almost all equipment will operate from one of the three phases which is a s near as **** it comes to swearing a normal 230 volt supply. Three phase is almost certain to kill you if you for instance grab the bare wires with wet hands. If it is working and you can undrestand your Tablue d'Electricity I would not worry about it.

In passing I would rather trust Nostredamous on post Medeval History than Wikepedia on Wiring

[Dave&Olive]

[quote user="Anton Redman"]

Except for lathes, saw benches, very big electric cookers  and milking machines almost all equipment will operate from one of the three phases which is a s near as **** it comes to swearing a normal 230 volt supply. Three phase is almost certain to kill you if you for instance grab the bare wires with wet hands. If it is working and you can undrestand your Tablue d'Electricity I would not worry about it.

In passing I would rather trust Nostredamous on post Medeval History than Wikepedia on Wiring

[/quote]

    single phase will do the same , no problem..!!!

   look at it this way if it aint broke why fix it !!

lets say you have 3 x 15amp supply comming in( 3 phase ) and you want 1 x 45 amp (single phase) the same amount ,the man from del- monte will take one look and say ( could say ) on yer bike sunshine . or dig deep in the pocket

 if you are asking questions like this please donot " play " with leccy remember you cannot see it, you cannot here it , you cannot smell it , and it kills !!

                 Dave 

[Jonzjob]

Hi Dave, I can only agree with you as to how dangerous it is.

As far as I can make out a 3 phase supply is a fair bit more costly to have that the equivelant single phase supply. That is for a normal household consumption. As for changing from one to the other I have no idea of the cost?

I do know that you should not have 2 appliances on different phases within reach of each other. If you get a problem with one of them and you can reach another appliance you could get a 380 volt belt and that would be a 'good by cruel world' situation!!

If you don't know what it does then don't handle it, it bites!!! and you can't see it coming!

[Deimos]

Some 3 phase electrical water heaters will do not have an option to run on single phase (though apparently some do). I know this because one I have is 3 phase only.

Ian

[tracteurtom]

[quote user="Jonzjob"]

I do know that you should not have 2 appliances on different phases within reach of each other. If you get a problem with one of them and you can reach another appliance you could get a 380 volt belt and that would be a 'good by cruel world' situation!!

[/quote]

and that is one very good reason why all the earth bonding must be in top notch order.

[Misty1]

I'm not a French electrician and this situation does not normally exist in UK but I'll chuck in my 10 pence worth...

The OP may have meant 2 or 3 WIRE installation. This, with your comments about 120 volts still existing in parts of France, may suggest the installation is either a 2 or 3 phase 240 Volt installation with no neutral. In this case, a third phase would help to bring more power into the house with no increased risk. All lights and appliances would work correctly, but the installation, or at least the consumer unit, would need to be adapted. The risks associated with this arrangement are not as  severe as 380V Three phase (and neutral), but in any event, if the wiring is installed, and used correctly, to standard, these and other risks will be minimised to a "satisfactory" level. 

[Nicos]

Thanks for all this information!

I think what we need to do is have a long chat with the owner to find

out what exactly has been installed. Maybe we got our wires crossed (ha

ha!) in translation??

What got me wondering about all this was that whilst staying in a

friends house in Italy, the power to the house was very limited and

kept tripping when it had reached the maximum power output ( ie

fridge/freezer,kettle, toaster, lights and washing machine). I wondered

if maybe this was also the case in France?

There may well be up to 12 of us using our French home at any one time

whereas there are only 2-4 at the moment , and I'd hate for the power

to go off regularly if that could be the case.

Anyone had any problems with a limited power supply??

[Chancer]

[quote user="Nicos"]Thanks for all this information!
There may well be up to 12 of us using our French home at any one time whereas there are only 2-4 at the moment , and I'd hate for the power to go off regularly if that could be the case.
Anyone had any problems with a limited power supply??

[/quote]

Probably nearly all of us!

The standing charge increases in exponential proportion to the maximum current available, most houses make do with the minimum they can get away with, do some searches on this site to find the definitive prices and current supplied.

[tracteurtom]

[quote user="Misty1"]

I'm not a French electrician and this situation does not normally exist in UK but I'll chuck in my 10 pence worth...

The OP may have meant 2 or 3 WIRE installation. This, with your comments about 120 volts still existing in parts of France, may suggest the installation is either a 2 or 3 phase 240 Volt installation with no neutral. In this case, a third phase would help to bring more power into the house with no increased risk. All lights and appliances would work correctly, but the installation, or at least the consumer unit, would need to be adapted. The risks associated with this arrangement are not as  severe as 380V Three phase (and neutral), but in any event, if the wiring is installed, and used correctly, to standard, these and other risks will be minimised to a "satisfactory" level. 

[/quote]

umm!!!!!!

Voltage between any line and neutral 230V  Single phase and 3 phase.

Voltage between phases 400V.  3 phase delivery only.  Note the 3 ph is delivered with 3 lines (phases) and a neutral.

I have never heard of a 2 phase delivery (but that doesn't mean there is no such thing!).    There are certain devices available that are 400V eg certain welders and heaters and these devices are connected across 2 phases, but they are rare.  I think you would still have a 3 phase delivery to use such devices.

Does any one know of 110V in France or indeed a 2 phase delivery?

[Misty1]

[quote user="pcwhizz"]

umm!!!!!!

Voltage between any line and neutral 230V  Single phase and 3 phase.
Voltage between phases 400V.  3 phase delivery only.  Note the 3 ph is delivered with 3 lines (phases) and a neutral.

[/quote]

At risk of being shot down in flames...Yes I agree, for a 400V three phase and neutral system. But, if, as an earlier poster suggested, there are still some parts of France with a 110V single phase supply, the phase to phase voltage would be within the permitted tolerance of a 230V supply. These 110V supplies could have been "converted" to 230 volt at relatively low cost by dropping the neutral, introducing an earth impedance, and distributing 2 phases as a 2 wire system. I stress that I am no expert of French electrical systems, but it  virtually follows that which the "EU harmonised" UK electrical regulations refer to as an "IT" wiring system in which terminology like "2 or 3 wire" could be used. - I don't know if it is used in France and AFAIK we don't see it in the UK, but as it's still in the "harmonised" regs, someone could be using it somewhere in Europe.- It came to mind because another forum thread were discussing an apparent lack of a polarity at socket outlets which would be commensurate with this system. Just a thought...

[Ford Anglia]

[quote user="Nicos"].
Anyone had any problems with a limited power supply??

[/quote]

<Hollow laugh> I'd agree that most people will have.[;-)]

Ours was 3kW when we took possession, and the ONLY heating was fan-heaters, rated at 2kW each. No fires, (chimneys blocked), and no central heating.

Two fan heaters on and "pop", out went the trip. Warm clothing was a necessity.

Added attraction was that there was no bathing facility, so we used the electric shower in the caravan, which, in February, was FREEZING, even with the 'van in the barn, so IT needed it's own fan heater until it warmed through and during the shower. Talk about rushed showers: anyone using the shower left the others shivering in the house[:(]

The things we put up with for the French dream.............

[Iceni]

[quote user="Nicos"]

Anyone had any problems with a limited power supply??

[/quote]

We have only 6kw and EDF claim that we cannot have more, their network is not up to it. Although we have lived in just 1 room since 10/2003 we have all the usual electrical things others have but in that time have tripped out through overuse just twice (that's two times for our US cousins), both occasions during mid-afternoon HC

1. builder switched on 1800w angle grinder

2. Di tried to hoover

The main culprit for others with limited supply is an electric kettle, needless to say we don't use one.

John

not

[Teamedup]

We used to have the same problem, and it was always during the HC because the water heater came on too, we had to have it on then other wise we wouldn't have had enough hot water.

I was so glad when we had it upped.

[Nicos]

Sounds like it's going to be fun!

I've looked at the Diagnostic de performance energetique  and it states

"obtenues par la methode 3CL, version 3CLv15c"

Would this indicate what sort of power we have to the house?? ( sorry- my French isn't up to all these new terms yet!)