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The Great French Paint Rip-Off Scam


Matelot

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Hi there!

No, it's not really a scam. But I do feel that a lot of French paint products are very much overpriced for what they are and I came a cropper recently. 

I have just returned from France having installed a brand new kitchen with the help of a French builder friend. We completely refurbished the kitchen walls with insulated plasterboard as the old plaster was falling off. This gave us a lovely new smooth, straight surface to install the cupboards. Anyway, my friend said that before fitting the cupboards and certainly before tiling, the bare plasterboard needed painting with a special paint that would: a) seal it, b) prime it, and c) make it easier to tile and paint (and remove the tiles in the future if necessary).  I thought ordinary emulsion would do, but no - it had to be a special paint.

So off to the nearby builders merchants we go. It is convenient to shop there for a lot of my bulky DiY materials and fittings and I have an account with them. We find the said paint in a 10ltr tub.

Are you sitting down?

It cost Eur 80,00  EIGHTY EUROS!!!!!!  The tiles only cost Eur 50,00! But, according to The Man At The Builders Merchants, it was the stuff we needed to seal and prepare the bare plasterboard. Ouch!  I am sure that I could have purchased a similar product at a much cheaper price here in the U.K.

Thank God I had brought over some Dulux emulsion for the general painting. So be warned! Buy your paint / paint products here in the UK and save yourself having to sell a kidney!  

BTW - A question to any builders in-the-know: could I have used a white acrylic paint to seal the plasterboard? If so, I could have got it for appr. £12.00 for 10ltrs  from Screwfix!!!!! You live and learn!

Salut!

 

 

 

 

  

  

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Welcome to the forum, Matelot. [:D]

If I wanted to seal a porous surface and make it partially waterproof against splashes, I would use a mixture of contract emulsion (which is water miscible) and PVA, (which is also water miscible).

Fine thereafter to paint, tile, whatever.

 

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I can't comment on what is obviously a specialist paint, but I CAN give you the benefit (???) of my experiences so far with French paint.

My wife and I painted two wooden shutters using Dulux paint brought from England. The wife liked the colour. We prepared the wood EXACTLY as it says, stripped off loose pait, rubbed down, primer, undercoat etc. Eighteen months later, the shutters are pealing.

I painted the barn doors. using a French paint, quite thin, it seemed but it covered in one, so why not? AND it seemed to sink in. I removed loose paint, but applied the French paint to bare wood. Eighteen months later, the only damage to it is a stone chip that the mower caused.

Both sets of painted items face the same way.

Draw your own conclusions, but I know where my money will be spent in future, as far as paint is concerned.

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Hi FA,

I must say that I have had no problem with the quality of French wood preservative or outdoor paint products - excellent, but very expensive. But I agree with you, if they do a good job, it's worth paying the price. 

French interior paint, however, is another story. It is expensive and I find generally inferior. I can get a better finish from Wickes trade range (and certainly Leyland) than the dearest paint from Brico Marché.

Eur80,00 is exhorbitant when I could have done the same job by mixing trade brilliant white silk with a pot of PVA.

I just wanted to let folks know of my experience to avoid possible heart failure of any Forum Members! 

I think the trick is to load one's brush according to the job in hand!

All the best! 

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I think you are right Nick. Once bitten........[:(]

Still, hey-ho! It's all experience. After 18 years I'm still learning!

I was just glad to get the kitchen fitted in the two weeks I had over there.

More importantly, She-Who-Must-Be-Obeyed-In-All-Things has seen the photos of the finished project and has voiced approval, so Matelot lives to sail again!! Huzzah! [;-)]

Salut!  

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French paint is not a rip off...you have to know what you need and where to get it at "french" prices!

Dulux (yeuch!!!) is aimed for the BRITISH diy market,and really not very good just well marketed. Leyland i(love it) s a trade paint so is much better quality, but again manufactured for the BRITISH market.

French paint is manufactured for the French market to be used with French materials, not British, so is more suitable for your house in France.....easy!!

Learn the lingo and buy French, it's what we professionals do!

I have over 20 years experience both in the UK and here in France, so I do know!

Good luck

Aly

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Interesting......................

So, do tell, Aly.

On another French forum, a lady member worked for ICI-Dulux France and she was supposed to be coming back with the answers; never actually did.

I do wonder if some of the horror stories have any truth or value: or are they apocryphal? Chinese Whispers? Old Wive's Tales?

So, what's the difference between French plasterboard and British plasterboard?

What's the difference between French pine shutters and British pine?

Masonry Paint: surely, if one uses a masonry paint based on Pliolite Resin, which I believe is a Dupont patent, Worldwide, and is breathable, does it really matter if it's French masonry paint or British masonry paint or Spanish masonry paint?

Personally, I have taken over Leyland trade products (masonry paint and wood stain/preservative for new shutters), after some research with Leyland's tech service labs and online.

Also, personally, I would never use Dulux: too expensive and never been pleased with the result.

I have always used "trade" paint; Johnstones (which is now Leyland) and Leyland, and Signpost and Three Elms etc.

 

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Ah, MASONRY paint, now that's ANOTHER experience entirely.

We have two cement barbecues, one built at the French house, and one here in the UK. The French one was painted with French expensive masonry paint. It covered well, but was thick, and I had to buy more of the main colour. It has flaked in places. It needs re-doing this year.

the English one was painted with English cheap-o masonry paint from Wickes. It covered well, and I had some left from the same amount bought originally in France. There is no flaking and it won't get painted again this year.

Conclusion? No idea, but I think I may try the one in France with Wickes stuff, esp as my lad now works there part-time so I get discount.......

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[quote user="nicktrollope"]

I suspect that you were a victim of the "great French builders merchant rip off the brits scam", TBH.

 

[/quote]

Perhaps someone in the building trade can confirm what I suspect goes on as far as pricing is concerned at builders merchants such as Big Mat and Point P.

Is there a list price which is set quite high and then those with trade accounts get a pre-determined percentage off list depending upon the amount of business that they expect to do?

This would go some way to explaining the big difference in pricing (except for quality issues) between them and Brico Depot which seems to take the British idea (yes, I know they're Brit owned) of pile it high  and sell it cheap no matter who the customer is.

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The Leyland masonry paint states ten year endurance, 105E.

If it flakes off before, I shall be having words..................

Benjamin, a tip I have given herein before.

When I go to Leyland, I always take my Screwfix catalogue and quote their prices for Leyland's paint!

The Leyland "Official" price always comes tumbling down, somehow!

Strange that..............[;-)]

 

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Dulux trade flat matt is excellent interior paint bought from a dulux trade centre not to be confused with the stuff bought at DIY stores like B&Q comes in a fantastic range of Heritage colours which work well with French period property or can be mixed to colour, I can't understand why people have problems with it its not the cheapest but who ever said cheapest was best? I just wish I could find it in France, I'd have to agree about french exterior paint as its designed to deal with the climate etc
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We buy most of our paint from professional suppliers. It is expensive but extremely good quality plus you also get good technical advice.

The scam seems to be that even reputable paint manufacturers make a differnt range of products for distribution through DIY outlets. In the past I've bought Dulux 2.5 litres white emulsion at 24 euros that was worse than an unbranded product at 8 euros/2.5l

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I was struggling to get a hold of some PVA over in France as I didn't know what the called it but I did want to get a tiling job done so looked around for an alternative.

I cannot for the life of me recall what it was called and will edit this post if I remember but I found a clear liquid that brushed onto old acrylic paint went on witha blue tinge then dried to leave a slight sheen as the only evidence it was there.

The stuff was quite expensive if memory serves but coverage was great and it did a fantastic job.

Bought it in Bricomarche its in a red and white 2.5 litre bottle and I think they sell it as a preparation for localised plaster repairs.....as a stabiliser sealer I really rate it

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[quote user="Benjamin"][quote user="nicktrollope"]

I suspect that you were a victim of the "great French builders merchant rip off the brits scam", TBH.

 

[/quote]

Is there a list price which is set quite high and then those with trade accounts get a pre-determined percentage off list depending upon the amount of business that they expect to do?

[/quote]

Come on all you builders, don't be shy. Let us in on the secret. [:D]

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Can anyone tell me why French paint tins are always half empty when you open them up. Must cost them a fortune in extra transport costs. First time I bought paint in France I took it straight back complaining it had already been opened and half used !!

Strange !!

John

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Here goes, Gluestick:

Masonty paint.....Pliolite is a Eliokem patent. Eliokem used to be a part of Goodyear in the USA, nothing whatever to do with Dupont! Due to the climate etc., I would use French (or indeed Spanish) masonry paint in France. Given the climatic conditions etc. the French version would be more suitable in mediterannean (?sp) climates.

Trade Paint.....Johnstones is NOT now Leyland (paint). Leyland Paints is owned by the same group that have now bought Johnstones Paints. They are owned by a group called SigmaKalon. Leyland has been owned by them for quite some time, about 15 years (maybe more). Johnstones is a more recent aquisition. I know this because I know the Johnstone family both personally and professionally.

I don't know if there is a difference between French and English plasterboard (I'm a decorator not a plasterer!). There is however a huge difference between building methods and more importantly climatic conditions,  in the two countries and decorating products in France are designed with this in mind. Incidentaly, French houses are not plastered, only the joints in the plasterboard are. Therefore they have no drying out time and normally walls are undercoated immediately with an oil based undercoat thinned out with white spirit. It is of course possible to coat with a water based undercoat but the finish is inferior. PVA is never used by a French professional for this (or any other) job.

I don't understand why the English insist on adding PVA to other products to make a mixture they feel will do the job, when there is a perfectly good product available on the market which has been designed to do the job in question.

Fact:  to blot out marks on a ceiling, wall etc. DO NOT COAT WITH PVA AND THEN DECORATE! Paint with one coat of oil based paint (matt or undercoat) and follow with emulsion of your choice.

Fact: to get the most long lasting finish on shutters, windows etc., DO NOT COAT WITH GLOSS PAINT BROUGHT FROM ENGLAND, paint with one coat undercoat followed by 2 coats oil based satin (not gloss) finish bought in France. It is designed to cope with the extremes in temperatures found on the European continent.

Ford Anglia,  If your paint  flakes off, it is NEVER the fault of the new paint, but the substrate. Was the BBQ prepared properly, what was it painted with before? If it was painted with a product containing lime ,like distemper (for example) you will have to completely remove it or else paint with a neutralising primer first. The lime will eat through any new finish you care to put on and make it flake off.

In decorating, preparation is everything!

Anything else I can help you with?

Aly

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[quote user="BIG MAC"]

I was struggling to get a hold of some PVA over in France as I didn't know what the called it but I did want to get a tiling job done so looked around for an alternative.

I cannot for the life of me recall what it was called and will edit this post if I remember but I found a clear liquid that brushed onto old acrylic paint went on witha blue tinge then dried to leave a slight sheen as the only evidence it was there.

The stuff was quite expensive if memory serves but coverage was great and it did a fantastic job.

Bought it in Bricomarche its in a red and white 2.5 litre bottle and I think they sell it as a preparation for localised plaster repairs.....as a stabiliser sealer I really rate it

[/quote]

Primaire D'accrochage perhaps?

Sounds just like the stuff I used to key old carrelage before laying new.

Probably just another really expensive name for PVA!

Now to confuse things even more, years ago an old friend who did fibre glass moulding told me that he used PVA as a mould release, it seemed weird to me as I considered it to be an adhesive but it did leave exactly the same blue trace on the mouldings as on my carrelege and probably big Macs acrylic paint.

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[quote user="Charlotte3"]

Fact:  to blot out marks on a ceiling, wall etc. DO NOT COAT WITH PVA AND THEN DECORATE! Paint with one coat of oil based paint (matt or undercoat) and follow with emulsion of your choice.[/quote]

Would this work on lime based palster? Someone here told me to paint it with 50-50 mixture of polyeurethane and white spirit, then as normal?

[quote user="Charlotte3"]Fact: to get the most long lasting finish on shutters, windows etc., DO NOT COAT WITH GLOSS PAINT BROUGHT FROM ENGLAND, paint with one coat undercoat followed by 2 coats oil based satin (not gloss) finish bought in France. It is designed to cope with the extremes in temperatures found on the European continent.[/quote]

Why not gloss?

[quote user="Charlotte3"]Ford Anglia,  If your paint  flakes off, it is NEVER the fault of the new paint, but the substrate. Was the BBQ prepared properly, what was it painted with before? If it was painted with a product containing lime, like distemper (for example) you will have to completely remove it or else paint with a neutralising primer first. The lime will eat through any new finish you care to put on and make it flake off.

Aly

[/quote]

It was bare: I finished by smoothing on a thin coat of sand and cement, as per instructions, to fill any porosities, and when it went off, I painted it with french masonry paint.

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Oh great, I don't really like gloss paint but brought quite a lot of Dulux gloss back from the UK (from B&Q) to paint the shutters with. I had assumed after reading some warnings here, that it would be the best and longest lasting.. Please say it ain't so. [:(]
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Shutters - Everyone round here uses Bondex which gives a 9 year warranty. Seems to cope better with the extreme changes in temperature and has a much better resistance to UV. Guy down the road paints his shutters every year with Wicks paint because it's cheap. Personally once every 9 years is good enough for me.

Colour - Most paint seems to be mixed in France so take a sample pot from the UK, paint it on the same sort of material you want to cover here in France and take it to your local DIY shop and they will mix it for you. Alternatively there is some form of international colour code number (I forget what the number is called) on most paint tins and you can just take the number to your French DIY shop.

Emulsion Paint - My personal favorite is Leroy Merlin's own. Covers very well, in some rooms only one coat needed. Many tins say to add water (around 30%) as it comes in a concentrated form.

Brico Depot - Part of Kingfisher group, better known as B&Q in the UK.

Paint really is a personal thing and use what you feel happy with (bit like wine, the best is what YOU like). Taking in to account some of the stuff I have seen on UK paint in France I would use French paint because (as said in another post) it works better in France.

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[quote user="Choochoo"]

Can anyone tell me why French paint tins are always half empty when you open them up. Must cost them a fortune in extra transport costs. First time I bought paint in France I took it straight back complaining it had already been opened and half used !![/quote]

I have noticed that too!  I heard that it was because it was expected that you would thin the paint yourself after purchase, but no idea if that is true or not.

As for other comments regarding flaking paint after a short period, the problem there is almost certainly poor preparation.  To get a good lasting finish you must always prepare the surface by sanding (unless it is new wood) and then use a good undercoat.  My preference is to prepare, undercoat, one thin coat of the final colour and then a slightly thicker coat to ensure an even finish.  I am currently working with a paint company trialling a new high performance paint product (comprising traditional 17/18th century French colours BTW) it is expensive stuff, retail will be around 30 pounds per litre, but unless the surface is prepared properly even that doesn't adhere significantly better than cheapo junk from a DIY place.

Matt

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Thanks for that, Aly.

Climatic extremes: well, in the Nord Pas de Calais, it is basically much like Southern England! (Longitude same as Devon border with Cornwall).

If it were say Provence then yes, I can see that a different range of temperature and humidity would come into play.

I used a Pliolite resin paint as it is fundamentally breathable. It is used on subterranean tunnels which of course sweat water owing to water table all the time, without the paint film flaking. We shall see if the manufacturer's Ten Year Guarantee holds up................

New pine shutters (BricoDepot, trimmed to absolute size); these we treated with a Leyland stain/preservative as we wanted to achieve  the local colour ambience: cream/yellow tinged masonry, dark stain shutters, similar to Sadlins.

With nine large pairs of window shutters and three smaller single and two full sized door shutters, to gloss paint them we would have been there still! Very knotty wood with much free resin emerging and rough end grain here and there. however, you pays your money and you takes your choice. BricoDepot are noted for the cheap end of the market and no sales service or after sales service or technical service. very much a pile it high and sell it cheapest operation.

Haven't yet had to face the dreaded internal decoration: that's another matter!

I am honestly trying to be argumentative, but well, wood is wood (whichever country it comes from!) and plaster is plaster and cement is cement and so I would really love some technical data on whay Paint X should be used against Paint Y.

Comes from much time spent re-finishing metals where different chemical substances had different applications but some you could change around.

Agree about preparation: finishing metal teaches you how the slightest imperfection will show up and also how the smallest amount of foreign matter will prevent a paint film from adhering properly!

Try dural sheet, for example![blink]

 

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