smell from toilet

[fussy]

hello we need some help please last sept we put in a new toilet and sink downstairs and almost straight away there has been a terrible smell in there we thought it was the septic but the up stairs doesn't smell, every weel I put two sachets of eparcly down I have stuck my head in the loo no smell and in the sink still no smell we also have an extractor in there which goes up into the loft its driving us mad and suggestions please thanks

[Russethouse]

 

These threads may help, but if not just use the search function something like 'smelly toilet' - you are not alone....[:)]

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/566977/ShowPost.aspx 

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/743171/ShowPost.aspx

[Iceni]

This will probably be of absolutely no help but the only times we suffer in this way it is because the u-bends have tried out.

John

not

[Gluestick]

Tried out what?

A new recipe for Curry? [:D]

[powerdesal]

The main reason (only reason???) for a smell coming back from the fosse is the loss of seal water at the trap. Is the trap seal obviously full or is the level low?. Could the use of the upstairs facilities be causing a suction on the lower floor trap and lowereing the level?

I suggest that you flush the downstairs loo, check if there is a smell, note the trap water level then immediately flush the upstairs loo and then immediatly recheck the downstairs level.

Two sachets of eparcyl a week is (IMHO) excessive.

Edit: Your waste pipe is vented I presume.

[fussy]

thank you for your advise tried everything that you suggested all ok the mystery is that no smell is coming from the toilet or the sink the reason i am blaming the fosse is that sometimes and only sometimes the smell goes all be it only for a very short while then its back again, our friends can smell it too there used to be a shower in there but we too it out and cemented the whole floor and re tiled.

[Dave&Olive]

[quote user="fussy"]hello we need some help please last sept we put in a new toilet and sink downstairs and almost straight away there has been a terrible smell in there we thought it was the septic but the up stairs doesn't smell, every weel I put two sachets of eparcly down I have stuck my head in the loo no smell and in the sink still no smell we also have an extractor in there which goes up into the loft its driving us mad and suggestions please thanks[/quote]

         hi OK

                    just a few thoughts , you say you put in a new toilet and sink   are you sure when you flush the loo it`s not sucking the u-bend dry in the sink ??

                  modern toilet paper  can  absorb  more water than it displaces , I have seen situations where on a short water saving flush paper is left at the back of the u-bend and will dry out the water seal ...

                 just for info using too much activator in the fosse can actually give long term problems , it can cause the tank to over ferment ,this will cause the tank to agitate and bring up solids from the bottom into suspension  and forcing them out into the drainage field ,causing this to block early

   Dave

           ps did not use my spell check either

[cooperlola]

I agree about the loo-paper thing.  It seems to me to be much more of a problem with modern, small cisterns.  At the risk of having everybody saying "how disgusting" - having lived with a cess pool in the UK for nearly 30 years and a fosse here for the last 3, I now have a bag by the loo and put the paper in there, rather than flushing it (for, shall we say, er.. liquids only.. btw![Www]).  It has saved us endless hours with drainage rods, I can tell you!!

[Gluestick]

Standard practice on all the Greek Islands, John Eric!

Small pedal bin beside every loo. You just become used to it.

In some ways it's a far better system. Provided one doesn't live in one of the experimental boroughs with rubbish collection on a two weekly basis.

I have also viewed Greek loo paper which states "Made from recycled paper!" with intense suspicion................[blink]

[powerdesal]

If as Dave says the problem turns out to be from the sink trap, check out using a HEPvO trap unit to avoid smells.

[Chancer]

If you have your ballon de chaude in the same room, the group de securite valve may be stuck and not venting each night as the voluime expands while heated, and the water in the u-trap may have evaporated leaving a clear path for the stink.

Try purging the valve, which incidentally should be done to prevent it sticking in the first place, however it may now start dripping all the time!

Editted: Maybe the terrible smell is because they are already using a waste paper bin[:)]

[Gluestick]

The strange thing is, JR, having spent quite some time there (Greek Isles), they don't, particularly, even when it is very hot!

 

[fussy]

Hi Dave thanks for your thoughts it has crossed my mind also about too much activator apart from two sachets a week of eparcyl I also put down a squirt of tarax gel wc every night I am using fosse friendly toilet paper but maybe that is getting trapped as you say I am drivin OH so mad that he is thinking about taking the toilet out and starting again. Anyway thanks very much.

[powerdesal]

Fussy,

Lets try and work some logic in here.

The smell is sometimes there, but goes away for a short time, then comes back - yes?

What have you done immediatly before the smell goes way, and what have you done immediatly before it comes back?

eg Have you used either upstairs or downstairs toilet?

    Have you used the sink (washbasin) in either bathroom / toilet ?

    Etc Etc

When it is smelly, where is the smell strongest, wash basin drain or toilet bowl ( yes, you have to do a serious "sniff" test).

Edit:  What is the time scale involved in the "short time"?

Extra Edit. two x Eparcyl plus tarax every night, you are definitely over active on the fosse front. How many people in the house?

[fussy]

Hi Steve thank you very much for trying to sort this annoying problem out our beautiful house doesnt deserve a smell of any kind, the time between  smells can be as much as a few hours it sometimes builds up during the day we only use the upstairs loo at night or if I need to go while making the bed or cleaning up there so not much at all I have had my head in the loo and in the sink nothing from there, when the smell is very bad there is a tiny amount of smell coming from the toilet but not enough to warrant the smell as you walk into the loo the toilet seat is never ever left up yesterday it was awful in there,today at the moment its not too bad, so as we have done nothing different from any other days its a mystery there is only the two of us , today I'm giving the no toilet paper a go I am prepared to try anything before hubby strips it all out he has made such a loverly job too. Just as a thought we both went back to the uk for five days in april and there wasnt a smell at all in there when we got back. Anyway as I said before thank you so much for your concern, if you lived near you could pop in and have a smell ( if you know what I mean )

[cooperlola]

[quote user="fussy"] Anyway as I said before thank you so much for your concern, if you lived near you could pop in and have a smell ( if you know what I mean ) [/quote]An offer you can't refuse, really![+o(][Www]

[powerdesal]

Edited, I was thinking total rubbish.

Fussy, stop using ANY activator for at least a couple of weeks and see what happens. No eparcyl, no tarax gel.

[Payrac-man]

Hi

Try taping up the sink overflow and stuffing a plastic bag down the plug hole (and not using it obviously) for a day or two

if no smell then thats the problem.To rectify you need to vent the sink waste by either running a vent pipe up to the stack at a

level higher than the last outlet which may be difficult to fit now or fitting  an anti syphon device in the outlet from sink I have a

couple of these fitted with varying success the fist option is best if possible

[Gyn_Paul]

Hi Fussy,

May I ask a few more questions ?

If the fosse is vented properly, and all the traps are full of water then no gas or smell should come back into the house.

Tell me about the ventilation: you mentioned, I think, you have a VMC.

Where is the air coming INTO these ventilated rooms ? I mention this

because - believe it or not - a powerful VMC on its high setting, can

suck the water out of a shallow trap (like the v.low profile bath ones

for example) in a closed room; thus then pulling the air out of the

pipes back into the room (been there: done that, got the peg on the

nose).

Is there a vent stack connected to the fosse?, If so, where does that

terminate in relation to the rest of the house and the offending rooms

? Does it stick well above the roof line, or is there the possibility

that downdraught is pushing the gas back down the pipe?

When the loo is flushed, does the trap in the sink (or anywhere else for that matter) 'glug' ?

Anywhere you have a loo with other plumbing 'upstream' from it

connected to the same waste pipe, the action of flushing the loo will

tend to 'pull' the water out of the other traps. The best solution is

an air admittance valve placed upstream of the traps in at least the

same diameter as the pipe concerned (ie. if the furthest appliance is -

say - a shower with a 40mm waste, then the air admittance valve needs

to be 40mm also). Better yet is a vertical extention to the 100mm soil

pipe as near to the WC as possible, with an air admittance valve (for

inside the building) or continued through the roof like a uk soil stack.

I do wish you luck; I know how horrid and off-putting this problem can be.

p

[Chancer]

I agree with all Gyn Paul has said except using the same diameter of air admittance valves.

In my experience you can safely use much smaller ones as the air is much less dense than the water, I use 40mm air valves upstream of 100mm toilet discharges without problem. Have used them in the UK as well as they are cheaper and take up less space than the 110mm ones supplied there.

[fussy]

Hi we are so grateful for all your concerns we are at our wits end when we flush the toilet there is no glugging from the sink the fosse vent is 20mts from the toilet it is 2 feet above ground terminating in a u bend we also have a vent above roof line with a mushroom thing on top over the utility room which is 10 mts from the toilet the upstairs bathroom is fine no smell ever. This toilet used to have a shower in it hubby took the shower out put a bag over the pipe which he filled with silicone then cemented the floor we then had someone come and put a screed over that plus the rest of the floor then had cushion flooring laid on top the only ventilation we have is a small extractor fan going up into the roof and the window, one of our friends thought the smell was coming up through the floor but how is that possible with all what we have done to it. Thanks again j

[Dave&Olive]

[quote user="fussy"]Hi we are so grateful for all your concerns we are at our wits end when we flush the toilet there is no glugging from the sink the fosse vent is 20mts from the toilet it is 2 feet above ground terminating in a u bend we also have a vent above roof line with a mushroom thing on top over the utility room which is 10 mts from the toilet the upstairs bathroom is fine no smell ever. This toilet used to have a shower in it hubby took the shower out put a bag over the pipe which he filled with silicone then cemented the floor we then had someone come and put a screed over that plus the rest of the floor then had cushion flooring laid on top the only ventilation we have is a small extractor fan going up into the roof and the window, one of our friends thought the smell was coming up through the floor but how is that possible with all what we have done to it. Thanks again j[/quote]

 bet the smells comming from here !!!

or here!!!

 

Dave

 

[fussy]

dont see how these can be the problem the vent from the fosse is outside in the drive and the thing with the mushroom is at the other end of the house the saga goes on

[powerdesal]

fosse vent is 20mts from the toilet it is 2 feet above ground terminating in a u bend

Fussy,

I dont believe that your fosse vent should have a u bend, is the u full of water? The purpose of the vent is to allow unrestricted venting to atmosphere, the vent pipe should equally not terminate 2 feet from the floor, it should go up above eaves level into free air.

If the vent "u" is full of water it is creating another water trap seal which stops the fosse venting, the fosse will then attempt to vent via the toilet waste pipes, ie to your mushroom thing.

Just as a matter of interest, and ignore this if I'm "talking down to you", the waste pipe vent stack lets air IN and the fosse vent lets fumes (smelly air) OUT.

I suppose it may be possible that, given the intense activation and a possibly sealed vent that the fosse is getting positively pressurised to a degree. What effect that would have I have no idea, but it cant be a good thing to happen.

[fussy]

steve I have sent you an e-mail asking you how to send pics on the forum I would like to send you pics of the fosse vents