cement or concrete

[woody2122]

IF I was to build a brick wall in my garden what would be the best to use ie cement or concrete, and if cement what is the mix ratio, because some people say 1 cement 3 sand 1 water and others say 1 cement 6 sand 1 water, I tried both of these for a test and the cement just crumbled away the next day when I poured some on the garden the day before

[Ron Avery]

Sorry its late I just read your post again,  how can you buld a brick wall with concrete or cement?

Do you mean the foundations?  If so use concrete.

It would be best to use agglo blocks and then render it.

The mixes of cement depend on the use.  1 to 3 is strong,  usually 1 to 4 or 5 is used for mortar or render,  have a "google" on cement mixes, there are loads of D-I-Y sites with all the mixes listed and uses.

[Ford Anglia]

To add to what Ron said, the correct stuff for BETWEEN bricks and/or blocks is actually mortar. Concrete is for the foundations, and needs to be around 6:1 ballast:cement, (ballast is a sand/gravel mix).

Mortar is a sand/cement mix around 4:1, and use water to which has been added a mortar plasticiser. The amount of water added decreases when using a product like that, and water should be added until the mortar is soft, but will stand up in peaks, a bit like whipped cream does. If you're doing the job in this sort of weather, it's also a good idea to add some special stuff to stop it freezing as this WILL crack your concrete, cement mortar w.h.y. The last time I bouight any it was a plasticiser too.

The reason the cement you made crumbled the next day is that it was "green", ie: not fully hardened.

It would NOT have crumbled had you left it a week.

HTH

[Georgina]

Ooh dear, I hope it's not going to be a high wall [:D]

[Nick Trollope]

Just to be pedantic (amn't I always?);

Cement is the grey powder you mix with sand to make mortar or sand and aggregate to make concrete.

[pimpernel]

Woody, I think it might be best if you got a builder in.

[raindog]

[quote user="Ford Anglia"]To add to what Ron said, the correct stuff for BETWEEN bricks and/or blocks is actually mortar. Concrete is for the foundations, and needs to be around 6:1 ballast:cement, (ballast is a sand/gravel mix).

Mortar is a sand/cement mix around 4:1, and use water to which has been added a mortar plasticiser. The amount of water added decreases when using a product like that, and water should be added until the mortar is soft, but will stand up in peaks, a bit like whipped cream does. If you're doing the job in this sort of weather, it's also a good idea to add some special stuff to stop it freezing as this WILL crack your concrete, cement mortar w.h.y. The last time I bouight any it was a plasticiser too.

The reason the cement you made crumbled the next day is that it was "green", ie: not fully hardened.

It would NOT have crumbled had you left it a week.

HTH

[/quote]

This is dead on: 4:1 for mortar.  And ordinary concrete is 4 gravel, 2 sand, I cement.

(can't go wrong with that: I built my own house and it's still standing.....

[Just Katie]

Phew.... Well that was long drawn out FA, but you had the answer in the end. [:)]

[Ron Avery]

Phew.... Well that was long drawn out FA, but you had the answer in the end. 

Which is quite odd really as FA didn't ask the question in the first place,  Woody did[:P]

[Just Katie]

I KNEW  THAT REALLY!!!  [:$]

[:D]

[jxedwards]

Try this.

http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/mixing_concrete.htm

 

Mixing Concrete

Mixing concrete correctly is vital for durable and long lasting foundations, here we will show you how to create a proper concrete mix for foundations, garden walls and patios, along with our concrete volume calculator to help you establish exactly what you need for your project.

Concrete is a mixture of cement, sand (fine aggregate), small stone or gravel (coarse aggregate) and water. It has many applications, from fence posts to motorway bases and, because of this; there are many different ratios for the constituents to be mixed.

This project will concentrate on a general purpose mix suitable for garden paths, fence posts, and shallow retaining wall foundations. It is a medium strength mix and is known as a C20 mix. This means it will attain a strength equivalent to withstanding a compression of 20 Newton’s per square mm after 28 days. This mix is not suitable for house foundations. For these please read our foundations project and ensure all the criteria are met, including the trench sizes and ground suitability. Then, unless specified otherwise by an architect or structural engineer, a C15P mix can be used which is comprised of 1 cement, 2 sand or very fine aggregate, and 6 coarse aggregate.

The calculators below will help you work out exactly what you will need for your project.

 A bag of ready mixed aggregate can be bought in most builders merchants or is can be bought loose and delivered to you by lorry. Buying it loose is generally cheaper and, if you have the room to "drop", it is a more practical option.

Check out the B&Q Web Site for some fantastic deals on bulk sand, cement and aggregates.

In most areas of the country, this mix of aggregates (sharp/grit sand and small stones or gravel) is called "ballast", in the West Country it is most often called ½inch or 10mm to dust. This describes the sieved state of the stone as it comes out of the quarry crushers.

Cement can be bought (mostly in 25kg bags, although some stores still sell 50kg bags) from all builders merchants. It is crushed limestone, blended with other raw materials (sometimes shale and or sand) ground into a powder and then heated in a kiln. This process produces a cement clinker which is mixed with Gypsum and ground further to produce the cement. Have a look at the B&Q Web Site for great deals on cement

Water is a very important part of the mix and the volume of water used can dictate the strength of the finished mix. On site or in ready mixed concrete yards a "slump test" is used to test the water content of the concrete.

A cone made of steel is used for this test. The cone is 300mm high, with a top opening of 100mm diameter and a bottom opening of 200mm diameter. The mixed concrete is placed into the cone through the top, a bar is used to compact the concrete and remove air voids, within the cone. The cone is then lifted clear. By laying the bar on top of the cone, it is possible to measure how far the concrete "slumps". A slump of approx 50mm is acceptable for C20 concrete.

The proportions of materials for a C20P (P = Portland cement) mix are 1 x cement, 2 x fine aggregate (sand) and 4 x coarse aggregate. If you are using premixed ballast, then 6 of these are mixed with 1 part cement. In an ideal world, where everything is delivered dry, then a water to cement ratio of approximately 0.55 should be used....For example, if you require 25kg of cement in your mix, then 25 x 0.55 = 13.75kg (liters) of water. This is the maximum amount of water that should be used. Most of the time however, the sand etc is damp, or even wringing wet, and care has to be taken to ensure your mix does not become too sloppy. It should be able to support itself, almost fully, in a heap on the shovel.

When mixing a very strong mix, normally labeled C35P the mix is 1 cement, 1 stone and 2 sand or 1 cement to 3 ready mixed aggregate.

When mixing concrete you will find that, while the ballast will heap on your shovel, the cement will slide off. This will give you incorrect proportions when mixing...1 part of cement should be equal to 1 part ballast. It is better to measure your quantities using a bucket to ensure correct proportions. Mixing by hand is a bad idea unless you only have a tiny amount to do. Only very rarely will you be able to get the cement evenly distributed throughout the mix and this leads to weak concrete.

A cement mixer can be hired from all tool hire shops, and if you have a lot to do it often pays to buy your own. Click here to check out a great range of mixers available at B&Q or click on the mixer in the B&Q Tools box below. Once you project is at an end you will always have the option of selling the mixer which is what most self-builders do.

To ensure a well mixed batch we suggest you add your ingredients to the mixer in the following order. 75% of the water followed by 50% of the aggregates. Add all of the cement and then the rest of the aggregates and the remainder of the water.

Concrete Calculator

You will see that your answer will me given in cubic meters. Input your dimensions in meters...I.E.  500mm = 0.50meters

[woody2122]

Thankyou everyone and Ron for helping me with this question, when I said cement or concrete I should have explained I meant between the actual bricks of the wall, (just in case some people thought I meant making the actual wall out of cement or concrete) So I will use mortar to go in between the bricks when I build the great wall.

[Ron Avery]

Woody, seriously, so that your satellite dish does no harm to you or anyone passing, if you were considering using concrete,  which is full of stones as mortar, I refer you back to pimpernel's response[:D]

[woody2122]

Thankyou Ron for helping me with this question

[Dave&Olive]

[quote user="Nick Trollope"]Just to be pedantic (amn't I always?);

Cement is the grey powder you mix with sand to make mortar or sand and aggregate to make concrete.


[/quote]

 hi ok

   you could be really pedagogic and say Portland cement .

           Dave